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trlau
Aloha
USA
29 Posts |
 Posted - 03/12/2004 : 12:58:25 AM
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Something I wanted to share with the group.
I was accompanying my 9 year old daughter on piano as she was beginning to prepare a "Go Tell Aunt Rhody" on the violin for her very first recital. [for those folks who know the Suzuki method - yup, this is it...] After some thought, I offered her four things to ponder in order to get up to 'performance level':
1. play in time
2. play in tune
3. play with expression
4. play with good tempo
Give that she is about 4 months into the instrument, we essentially practiced doing one thing at a time. At the end of the session, I said "hey, just for fun, try and play it kind of 'out', you know, play the piece 'at me'".
Punchline: of course, the piece came out much better. That of course was what I was really trying to teach her that night. Perhaps a question each of us can ask ourselves: 'are we thinking too hard while playing and does that impede our ability to make music?'.
I have been reading a great number of comments centering on 'doing in right' or essentially achieving a 'proper' emulation of _____fill-in-name-of-favorite-artist_____.
At the risk of attracting flames (I am a newbie you know), folks here (in contrast to many Hawaiian musicians) seem to gravitate perhaps naturally toward the more occidental tendency to 'do it right'.
I just wanted to remind all who feel this affliction that what I feel is most important about your music is that if it makes you or anybody else feel happy, then it IS good music. Simple as that.
Malama Pono,
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Ted Lau
(poina 'ole he Hawai'i 'oe)
mailto:trlau @ earthlink.net |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 01:54:53 AM
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That raises an interesting point. It seems that the people I know take one of two approaches toward learning...they either just sit down and start messing around until they come up with something they like or they learn from tab. Not that there is anything wrong with either approach, but I find myself in the latter group wanting to be able to join the former. At this point I consider myself an idiot savante as far as music goes; I can play a handful of pieces well enough to impress people but ask me to do anything else and you'd think I had been playing for a few weeks instead of a few years. Don't get me wrong, I love playing the pieces I know. It's just that I would also like to feel comfortable noodling around and coming up with my own arrangements, and strumming along with others to songs I haven't learned.
All of which brings me to my question: How does one go about making the transition from one to the other? Has anyone here successfully gone through this transition who could offer some tips on what worked for them? |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 01:58:29 AM
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For me, the main point of playing is communicating feeling. (Well, maybe not just feelings) Anyway ....
So the question is how do we best get to where we can express ourselves through the wooden box and nylon/steel strings? (Since I do not sing, my expression comes as an instrumentalist - that box is all I got to get my stuff across.)
I'm now working with a superb teacher who happens to also be a well trained concert level classical musician as well as a wonderful slack key player. One of the big lessons I'm learning from him is that I have more freedom to express, and more ability to express more powerfully and over a wider range of expression by having the basics down cold. For example, he's really pushing me to get my timing absolutely perfect, and to be able to visualize accurately what I'm going to play (that is for pre-arranged, not improvised, passages.) The goal isn't to play with metronomic perfection, but to be able to do it and to let go of it consciously - to modify for effect. This doesn't mean you "rationally think" each passage - it is largely a question of feeling and intuition - but of also having the technique to accomplish that expression. He's also having me focus on the tone is get with the notes I play - and that makes a huge difference.
I guess the proof or validation of this approach for me is the eaction of "regulars" at the restaurant where I have a ongoing gig - when I play there, I don't focus on timing or tone, and only on the worst of nights do I focus on playing correct notes. -- I just try to get into and play the songs. Anyway - since I've started to work on the technical issues in practice and in lessons, people have been complimenting me on how much more depth of feeling I have in my playing - and ... not only has the tip jar practically doubled in the past 4 months, but I'm also starting to get more requests for private parties and gallery events from the customers at the restaurant.
I'm not saying this to brag - just to support my writing that when done properly, a focus on the technical side of playing can pay off huge on the expressive side - and that, in turn, makes playing tremendously more satisfaying and enjoyable for me.
Raymond
San Jose
Even when I worked intensively with George Kahumoku, he was always getting on my case for my sloppy timing. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1021 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 10:52:03 AM
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Craig,
I know many folks will disagree, but I've convinced it's a right/left brain thing. I'm an analytical guy; a problem solver. I was a math major in college and found practical applications fairly simple. I used to solve partial differential equations as a hobby. I never received a grade lower than A in math from 1st grade through my junior year in college. However, I almost didn't graduate because I had to take abstract algebra. I might as well have been studying Chinese - absolutely no clue. Nothing ever made sense. In fact, I did so poorly, when I finally got to graduate school, I switched my major to Economics.
I have a sense that music is like this for me. The one tune that I've "authored" is mainly a collection of licks that I've heard from other artists. I can slog through tab and the audio and eventually "learn" a tune. As my technique gets better, this process becomes easier. When it comes to composing something, I'm usually lost for a place to even start. Although I think I can learn to do this, I'm convinced that some people can feel the "new" music better than others, and playing ability seems to matter only partially. Maybe creating music is something that can be learned; I'd be interested in the group's opinion on this. |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 3:56:09 PM
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quote:
I have been reading a great number of comments centering on 'doing in right' or essentially achieving a 'proper' emulation of _____fill-in-name-of-favorite-artist_____.
At the risk of attracting flames (I am a newbie you know), folks here (in contrast to many Hawaiian musicians) seem to gravitate perhaps naturally toward the more occidental tendency to 'do it right'.
Unless I am misunderstanding you, I don't think that this is the general tendency of this group. On the contrary, emphasis has been placed on playing to express our own individual feelings and not note-for-note copying of other artist's arrangements. |
Dusty |
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Bwop
Lokahi
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 5:26:20 PM
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Aloha kakou--
My two cents:
I've seen so many players on both sides of the tab/jam fence, often looking longingly at the other side. I don't know many who straddle the fence, but whatever greases your skillet- jus' press (or, jus' read and press). I happen to be a total ear player, and being dysslexic-- if I tried tab the tune would probably come out inverted ("if you listen to him play Hi'ilawe, it says 'Paul is dead'...).
Look at the range of styles within the Masters we know and love. Ozzie is so adept at tab playing (although he reminds us that it's merely a "reminder", not a formula) and then Led-- you could put a gun to his head and say "Play 'Highway to Hana' just the way you did on the CD" and he couldn't do it, he's so much in the spontaneous generation of his music. Whatever darns your socks.
I got forced into making a recording with help from George Kahumoku, and being a wide-eyed rube in the studio, I asked him if he used a timing track for recording. "No, just play how you feel..." was his response. Whatever grows your corn.
Bob Brozman has a great rap on 'rythym'. He talks of the 'three brains': the reptile brain, the monkey brain and the intellectual brain (in order of evolution). The muscles are the ballywick of the reptile brain, which has to be trained (with tab/by ear/whatever). The monkey brain handles emotions, which are fundamentally what we communicate in adeptly played music. The intellectual brain is superfluous software. Why do people 'in a groove' shut their eyes? Extaneous input. And because the monkey brain operates 30,000 times faster than the intellectual brain, music that comes from just a reptile/monkey place has that extra fluidity that becomes transcendant (just try having a conversation while playing something).
So, to sum-up, I really have no idea where I'm going with this. Some folks work well with tab, some, as the second grade report might mention, 'play well with others'. But we all have a 'kit' or a 'kaboodle', and maybe some folks have a 'kit' AND a 'kaboodle', and we all are blessed to share aloha with this wonderful music. I'm so grateful for all of us!
Whatever bails your wa'a.... |
Bwop |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 5:51:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by trlau
At the risk of attracting flames (I am a newbie you know), folks here (in contrast to many Hawaiian musicians) seem to gravitate perhaps naturally toward the more occidental tendency to 'do it right'.
I think there are a couple points to make. I generally agree with your statement. For one, I think it's driven by the method in which we learn. If you say that the Hawaiian way is to sit, watch and listen, you will ultimately try to do it when you're ready. Speaking for myself, as a mainlander, my only choice was to learn from a book. This tends to generate a more rigid player trying to emulate a performance in the way it was written. This is not to say that someone learning the Hawaiian way is not focused on technique. They certainly are. BWOP correctly points out that one should only use the tabs as a tool, a guide, to reach the larger goal of playing a piece with feeling and individualism. We're all trying to do that. In the absense of a teacher or other people to play with, tab can help you learn. One has to be careful not to become too reliant and limited by the tabs.
The other important factor, I think, has to do with attitude which is often tied to a person's age. The older you get, the more you think about it. A 9 year old is far more inclined to jus' press (or just play). As an adult, I am very self-conscious when playing in front of others. I get nervous. I get shaky hands. This is not something that happened to me as a child. You do not think. You just try to do it. So I think the "think too hard" when learning is not necessarily a Hawaii vs. Mainland problem. There are quite a few factors driving your observations.
So are we thinking too hard? Maybe. But each person learns differently so whatever works for you. In the end we are just trying to make nahenahe music. If not thinking gets you there, then don't think. If thinking gets you there, then that is right for you too. |
Andy |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 6:26:07 PM
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| Andy, that reminds me of the 8-year-old son of a friend of mine...he got an electric guitar and was so stoked that he brought it to school and jammed on it in front of his entire class. He didn't know a thing about how to play, but that was no match for his unbridled enthusiasm! |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 6:59:18 PM
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2 comments -
Bwop - I've played with GEorge a lot, and one of the things I've come to appreciate about his is his sense of timing. George used to say, just play the way you feel, but when I was off timing he would point it out to me. It doesn't have to be an either...or thing.
Craig - I did my jump from tab to arranging/improvising in steps. First step was to pick out the basic melody for a song on CD. Lots of trial and error - working with George helped me "ear train." Next Step was to work out basic chording. Then I started to mess with different arpegiations on the chords, adding some typical "slack key" ornaments. Also, at times I would try to figure out a phrase that I liked from a CD and apply it to a piece I was working on. (All of this was happening while I was learning how to play the guitar and learning taro patch at the same time, so it took a long time. I would imagine someone who already played the guitar could go faster.) Important -- each practice session I took a few minutes with a song I basically knew and tried to "improvise" a verse or bidge. Couple of years down, I'm at the point of practically not playing other people's stuff - except for the few songs I really like. However, I do keep studying Ozzie's TABS cause the give me lots of ideas. I'm also taking lessons which are focusing on arranging and composing - 'cause a) it helps to bounce off ideas with a real "expert" and b) it helps to have someone to whom I can say "this is the kind of thing I'm going for" and get help to get there ALSO -- I listen to music a good part of the day -- all types -- so there's always sounds going through me that I can draw on. I also hum or whistle a lot - and that is great improvisation practice.
Oh yeah, one last point - and this is purely personal. I really bugs me to hear people use the term "noodling" around. I guess it feels like it demeans a legitimate musical activity. I would much rather see words like "improvising" or " jamming" Now, I have heard in reply to similar comments that either words don't mean that much and/or that I'm just an uptight body part. While the second comment may be true, the first is definitely not true. The kinds of words we use to desribe ourselves and our activities have a lot to do with our self-images. Even if we are playing a "folk" form just for fun, we should proudly take our place with other musicians, and not describe our activities with words that vitiate the value of what we do.
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 7:30:27 PM
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Thanks for the ideas Raymond. BTW, I use "noodling around" to mean playing with no specific agenda, goal, or structure. It's different than improvisation or jamming...more like a cross between brainstorming and experimenting. I guess I should define abstract terms before using them!
I've heard words described as mental packages that wrap up our experiences and conceptions. When communication goes well it's because the contents of those packages are the same for the recipient as they are for the person delivering them. When it goes bad it's often because the contents are different. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2004 : 9:55:36 PM
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| Generally right, but sometimes it's the fault of the words themselves -or perhaps different people bring different meanings and connotations to them. Anyway, without such problems lots of us in the mental health field would have substantially less work. |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 3:58:29 PM
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There are ways that you can move from a strict 'tab' rendition to a more personalized sound. Once you know a tab song well enough to play through it smoothly, try adding very small things. A hammer-on/pull-off at one spot. A double plucked bass. A slide from one position to another. Throw in a chime. Some will sound bad and you'll discard them immediately. But. you'll like others and incorporate them and after awhile the song is yours.
Another technique is to play with the rhythm, the timing. Ozzie K did this when he was teaching 'Kimo's Slack Key'...played it once 'as written', and once with a 'cowboy kick'. Made the song totally different.
This, to me, is 'noodling around'. I'll tell myself that I can't play well enough to 'improvise', but adding an extra count to a beat is no big deal. |
Puna |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2004 : 6:11:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RJS
perhaps different people bring different meanings and connotations to them
That was my intended point. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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trlau
Aloha
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 01:01:42 AM
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Thank you all for the absolute candor, thoughtful nature, and clarity in your posts. It made for some super reading.
I especially liked Ray's comment (in part: "I did my jump from tab to arranging/improvising in steps..."). After reading Andy's comment, I did some thinking.
My suggestion (along the lines of Ray's post) is to try listening to just about any Hawaiian music BUT ki ho'alu. Like many of us did in past lives with folk/pop/rock tunes, figure out the key, chord progression (um, 95% [strike that] 98% chance that it's 1-4-5?), and then just play along. If all you're doing is (stealing Ray's term) arpegiations - that COUNTS as playing.
Eh - no shame if you're hearing a key of C to capo up to the 5th fret in taro patch and GO FOR IT!
Remember that many of the rhythmic forms in Hawaiian music are rooted in chant, and that the 'music part' takes a huge back seat to the words to the mele. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't just play ki ho'alu, you're leaving yourself short. Play Hawaiian music! :-)
Try some of Moe Keale's stuff or Ku'uipo Kumukahi, or Tony Conjugacion's album (Rina Awapuhi is a killer song).
Malama Pono
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Ted Lau
(poina 'ole he Hawai'i 'oe)
mailto:trlau @ earthlink.net |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2004 : 4:39:45 PM
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trlau
From the frozen north (weather today is zero, blowing snow, but, HARK, tomorrow is the first day of spring!)
I find i can do either; that is, play from tab, or learn by ear. I have always been able to follow along by ear, and as several others have stated, having the tab makes it easier to get the flow of a piece, but even when I try to follow it note for note, I still end up with somehting different than what the author did. That is good. What is bad, is, my technique is lousy, so it always sounds worse!!! Different, and mine, but worse. Oh, well....
In this age of the electronic tuner, it is so much easier to determine what key, if not what tuning, a player is in. Sometines i get the tuning from tab, but often you can figure it out by listening to how the base notes are used. I may not be right every time, but I can usually come close. Recently did that with Makana's (excuse the following, i don't have the CD here at work) Ku' U Awapuhi by Emily Taylor. This must be one of the most beautiful songs I have ever heard. Anyway, what i came up with to follow his base pattern was Keola's F Wahine tuning tuned down one whole step to, what, E flat? In that configuration I can get his intro, his base, and most of his runs. Can't keep the dang guitar in tune that low, but it was one way to figure it out. (If anyone knows what tuning he really uses, please forward same).
Another thing I found useful just this past week, was in an attempt to clean up the clutter of my music room. I had 7 or 8 tab books that I had been writing down little figures, turnarounds, endings and licks in half a dozen tunings. I decided to put all of each tuning in its own new tab book for quicker reference. In doing this, i had to play everything I had written down, often in wierd sequences, just as I had written them. I organized them into chord shapes, turnarounds, endings, and some of the complete "by ear" transcriptions of songs I had learned. In doing all this over the course of two nights, and listeneing to ki'hoalu most of the day, as i am wont to do, I discovered that I was only a very short step from learning 6 or 7 whole songs I have been listening. I figured them all out in taro patch in a few hours. Still can't play any well enough to let anybody hear them, but I got 'em. Guess what, folks; a lot of the writers of our favorites stole from those who came before, and simply rearranged the same basic patterns, turnarounds, etc., adding their own hammers/pull-offs, trills, sense of space and timing, and their personal feel to their "new" work. I don;t know if that would help anybody else make the 'transition' between tab and ear or vice versa, but it sure eased my learning of a bunch of new songs, the basics of which I really already knew.
KArl |
Karl
Frozen North |
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trlau
Aloha
USA
29 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2004 : 12:20:03 AM
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Karl,
Great thoughts. Especially in the context of the less than tropical surroundings!
I suppose some folks call 'em licks, other more erudite types 'musical form', but there certainly is a reason why the same moves over and over create the same feel. I think there must me many experienced players of all sorts of music (or speech for that matter) who perceive that improvisation is merely stringing together a series of 'tricks' in the bag. As such, the more tricks one has available, the easier it is to improvise, jam, play along, etc.
And now forum folks... Back to you for more commentary. |
Ted Lau
(poina 'ole he Hawai'i 'oe)
mailto:trlau @ earthlink.net |
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