| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
 Posted - 09/24/2004 : 11:15:41 PM
|
Dr. Dave,
Much Kudos on your signal path dissertation. I greatly admire your wise stance to avoid descending into specific gagetry recommendations. I agree that much great art can be done with simple and inexpensive tools, because I have seen & heard it done many times. Reminds me of how Ansel Adams taught many of his students the art of photagraphy by using "Brownie" box cameras.
One thing that I might add to your signal chain is what I would call the DIGITIZER, or some folks call the sound card. This is the last link into the purely numerical (and potentially perfect) processing inside the computer, and usually only in third place from the player (#1) and the mic (#2) in terms of screwing up the sound. (In my case it is the player, above all, who is srewing up the sound) (Ouch!... from offstage... as I slap myself). One recommedation I would make is to invest in a moderately good sound card or outboard digitizer. If you are stuck with a cheapie (like a SoundBlaster) or a built-in unit, make sure you get a moderately good preamp and feed the preamp into the LINE input on the sound card. The mic preamps that are in built-in and bus plug-in sound cards generally stink and are really only meant for telephone quality voice transmission.
We should also perhaps post some links to good recording and sound production web sites (of which there are quite a few). I will post some of my favs at another time.
I, and the rest of us (I presume), are eagerly awating your next treatise on editing.
|
Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 09/24/2004 11:18:04 PM |
 |
|
|
`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 09/25/2004 : 10:26:17 AM
|
Lawrence,
I was hoping you'd jump into this discussion. Having worked with you in the past, I appreciate your expertise. You are entirely correct and this helps me to formulate how to segue into Platform/Editing. With Signal Path, I was trying to make that break at the preamp. In many cases this is also the Digitizer (MBox, 002, Hard disc recorder, soundcard, etc.). Thank you for also pointing out that this is not about "what to buy", but some consideration should be given to what the minimun should be. I will incorporate this also.
Mahalo nui loa,
Dave |
|
|
|
Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2004 : 1:06:29 PM
|
Thanks indeed for this great thread! I am looking forward to the next installment. I am using a freeware studio program called "Audacity" which is available for Windows, Mac, and Unix. Not suggested for the technically challenged, due to very limited documentation. I have been working with Chris Yeaton and Don Kauli'a - we all think the sound quality is good using the setup I have. The tip about close unidirectional mic and position are most welcome - I am using Shur 58s and 57s. I am hoping to learn about Envelope, Equalization, Compression, and what the heck is Normalization? Would also love tips on making sure all the tracks on a CD have the same output level, so people don't have to turn the volume up and down... others wish list items: dealing with singers who have a wide dynamic range. What is the "pencil" icon, and how and when do you use it during editing?
Anyway, this thread comes at a time when I really need it!
Aloha,
-Konabob |
Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
|
|
|
chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2004 : 2:12:32 PM
|
Re the preamp to a sound card: is a preamp suggested for direct input from guitar to a digital recorder like a Tascam Studio 5? I don't have on board eq in my guitar, just an under saddle pickup.
Thanks guys. |
|
|
|
Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2004 : 3:41:39 PM
|
RE: Pre-amps and under saddle pick-ups.
The short answer? Yep, you should use one - it will help make your guitar sound more like a guitar.
However, we are actually talking about two different kinds of pre-amps here. Brother Dave is talking about the pre-amplifier at the end (middle, actually) of the recording signal chain -- the litlle circuitry that takes your mic level signal and boosts it up so you'll get a nice level on your recording. Mic-pres come in all shapes, sizes and flavors: all the way from dedicated rack mounted units costing thousands of bucks to little stand alone desktop boxes to internal mic pre's on mixers, "digitizers" (sorry, I've never heard that term before. But it gets the job done) like the Digi M box, and desktop studios like the Tascam 05. If it has a microphone input, chances are it has a microphone pre-amp.
Now then, an undersaddle piezo transducer as used on guitars is designed to be used with a specified kind of pre-amp. It is a common misconception among guitarists that you can simply plug your axe into a 1/4 inch input on the mixer/"digitizer"/recorder. The results are almost uniformily, well, ugly. As in a yinky, high mid quack.
But take that same pick-up and run it through a pre-amp such as the Fishman Blender, Sans Amp Acoustic D/I, etc. and it will sound better. How much better depends on how well the pick-up and pre-amp are matched -- yes, that's why there are so many of them -- and how much tone shaping you have at your disposal.
F'rinstance: I use the Sans Amp. It has a 3 band EQ with the middle band partially parametric (meaning you can "sweep" through the frequencies, but cannot modify the width (range of frequency) over which it works. There's also a little bit of tube emulation to warm up the signal. All of which makes it possible to dial up a sound the makes my guitar sound, well, almost like a guitar when I plug it in to a PA or recorder.
BTW: D/I stands for "direct injection" -- D/I's are boxes that take a high impedance signal, like that from a guitar pick up or keyboard, and drops it down to mic level so you can plug it into a PA or recording mixer. Why would you want to do that? Less noise, longer cable runs, etc. Pro gear doesn't usually have 1/4 inch inputs, either. So a D/I is a necessity in the pro studio world.
OK, back to your question, Chunky Monkey. All desktop studios, such as the Tascam unit, have 1/4 inch inputs-- in fact, many have dedicated "guitar" inputs with additional signal processing available. Generally speaking, these are optimized for electrics -- though I know the Roland units have very good acoustic mic modeling. So, yes, you can plug your guitar straight in. But, as I said, it would sound better if you first went through some kind of dedicated guitar pre-amp.
Regardless, the best way to to get it to sound like a guitar is to mic it. If you do want to use the pick-up, here's a nifty pro trick: Record both the pick-up and one or two mics on to individual tracks. You'll notice the pick up track will sound thinner, and probably has much more high mids -- so you can use it (sparingly) when mixing to help give the guitar some definition.
But that's another topic...
Happy recording!
|
|
|
|
`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2004 : 3:58:47 PM
|
Mark,
As I was replying to Terry and Konabob. you slipped in there. And as always, I'm grateful. Below is the short answer that I had written
----------
Terry,
In the context of this discussion, a preamp is any device that amplifies that signal so that it can be recorded. (Let's not worry about impedence here) For example, your guitar with under-saddle pickups will need some sort of amplificion. The same can be said for those with on-board controls. The battery is a signal booster, but not a strong enough signal. If the device is dedicated for instruments only, it us called a DI Box (another named for a pre-amp). Are you going directly from your guitar to your sound card?
I'm sorry if I was unclear regarding digital recorders. Some of the better ones (I don't know about the Tascam) have built-in preamps that allow you to plug in guitars and mics directly. I will talk a little more about it when I discuss Platform.
Konabob,
If you're getting a good sound with Shure 57s and 58s, then you're doing a great job with your Signal Path. Don't get me wrong, I love those mics, but their ideal application is not acoustics recordings. Congrats!! Give Chris an Aloha for me.
Hopefully I will be able to address you questions in the Editing section. It should be done soon, but it's a lot of material to boil down.
Mahalo,
Dave |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 09/28/2004 4:02:04 PM |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
