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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
 Posted - 10/25/2004 : 11:17:55 PM
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i was wondering what advice you sliders would give a slacker like me... i love the sound of a hawaiian steel guitar, and think that it would be fun to pull one out at a kanikapila. especially at a kanikapila, maybe, because a slack key guitar gets lost in a changalang. a hawaiian guitar might fill in better, like a bass does.
- are there a whole new set of tunings, or will the ones i know work? the same goes for turnarounds...
- someone (i forget who) told me that you get a headache learning to play lap steel because you're always looking down. is this true? (this is supposed to be a problem for learners; as you get better you don't have to watch as closely).
- who should the beginner listen to for inspiration? "feet" rogers?
aloha,
keith
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 12:55:06 AM
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Hi Keith,
It is a lot of fun to see what you can do with taropatch tuning and a steel slide. Yes there are lots of tunings, but you only need one to play lead/turnaround stuff.
It would add a little spice during kanikapila to add a little one or two-string slide when everyone goes to the IV chord, or to throw in traditional slack/steel turnaround when appropriate.
At George's workshop, during the first night kanikapila, I was scooching as close as I could to Bob Brozman so I could look over his shoulder, and in the midst of the cacaphony of the first tune (first night there is a lot of cacaphony until we figure it out) came just a few sweet sliding notes from Bob's tri-cone National guitar that gave me chicken skin.
Now that's what I'M talkin' about!
But like any instrument, you gotta play only the pono notes, not all the others.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 01:07:13 AM
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Yep - stick with good ol' taro patch G for a year, and you will not be sorry. One of the first things I learned is... don't keep changing tunings, or your hand/eye/ear coordination will take a long time to come together. Yes, you look down a lot (which does make reading tabs, chords or lyrics a bit less easy), but I have never gotten a headache! Learn a few good Hawaiian koholos and some of the standard chords. You should be able to play unaccompanied or jam with others. I find myself using different tricks for each of these situations. Try playing along with CDs of your favorite slack key artists - especially songs you know fairly well. Good Luck, and have FUN!
-Konabob
-Konabob |
Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 05:52:19 AM
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And what about the adaptor that allows you to convert your guitar into slide?
I know Bob Brozman had workshops on this, but I wasn't curious enough...yet.
But until you get your National Resonator, this is a cheap way to explore the realm, eh?
G |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 10/26/2004 : 3:02:13 PM
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Hi -
I joined the steel fold about a year or so ago.. picked up a sweeeeet weissenborn - style used right here on TaroPatch. Prior to that I'd experimented from time to time using a nut extender on Annie's long-suffering Gigson LG-0.
Here's my 2ยข -
Pick-up a nut extender (I think Steward McDonald has 'em, right Bob?) if you don't want to dive in and buy an expensive new ax. Otherwise, hey, here's your excuse to spend some more big money! For my taste, get a wooden axe and leave the resonators to the bluegrassers..... Kona Bob has one of those very nice Mexican made ones, mine's Canadian. Neither are all the expensive.
Try at couple of bars to see which you like (I prefer bars with dim lights, thick smoke, and loud, loud music.... no wait, wrong song.) I'm still shuffling between a couple, nothing's settled in yet.
Finger picks? Up for grabs... I had an amazing lesson recently from Joel Harper (Ben's bro)... he doesn't use 'em, so I'm experimenting with that. Nice, organic sound.
Tunings? Here's where I'm still looking for the right one:
Taro Patch -- it's familiar, and sometimes your basses work. But it is trouble keeping the slants in tune. Of course, KonaBob positively sings in this tuning....
G-B-D-G-B-D The standard dobro tuning. Sounds nice, is fairly easy, and it has the advantage of lots of intsructional material, as well as lots of string sets. Plus it's easy to find a teacher who knows this tuning... It may be bluegrass, but hey, basics are basics.
G6 (G-B-E-G-B-D) I love this tuning -- simply raise one string from dobro tuning. Gives you both major and minor triads without any slants, and sounds oh so nahenahe when you throw a huge gliss across all the strings.
Open D: D-A-D-F#-A-D. Same as D Vestapol tuning on the guitar. This is one Joel showed me. He made it sound amazing. Like TaroPatch, you have the basses to work with, so it is nice for solos. Also, your G chord is played at the 5th fret, so you have the advantage of sliding into the tonic when you jam with someone in TaroPatch. Same issue with slants, tho.
I'm having a ball learning this new instrument, but let me tell ya, it's like playing the guitar on ice skates.
Happy slidin'!
Mark
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1025 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 11:32:06 AM
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Keith,
I know you have some Delta blues background - as you know, Open G is a standard bottleneck blues key and you can get lots of mileage out of the pentatonic and blues scales. I have a Bob Brosman bottleneck blues video if you want to see it. I like open D because it gives you a root on the bottom string, but I haven't tried much of this with Slack Key jams. Despite Mark's comment, I like the sound of a good steel-body resonator, like a National Tricone However, that blues-tinted version of Opihi Moe Moe that Mark Nelson does on his Taylor is fantastic. I've always dreamed of finding the proper mix of bottleneck blues and slack key. Would keep me playing blues, but I have enough trouble keeping up in one genre. |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 11:45:04 AM
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Gordon, here's the adapter that converts a guitar to a lap guitar:
http://www.elderly.com/accessories/items/EN02.htm
Most decent guitar shops carry them. It's a pretty cheap way to get into lap steel playing. I think a standard guitar with a nut adapter can make a nice sounding lap steel guitar. |
Gary |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2004 : 11:52:48 AM
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Keith asked about turnarounds at the begining of this thread. If you use the Taropatch tuning on steel guitar then you can use a lot of the same slack key turnarounds for steel except they're simpler.
Below are some simple D7->G turnarounds for steel guitar. Once you get the feel for it you can come up with an almost unlimited number of variations.
Basic turnaround:
D |-9--7-----------0--4--5-|------------------------|
B |-------7----------------|------------------------|
G |----------7--5----------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
Three variations:
D |-9--7--------------4--5-|------------------------|
B |-------7----------------|------------------------|
G |----------7--5----------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
(Note: Triplet on 2nd beat below)
D |-9--7----7------0--4--5-|------------------------|
B |-------7----------------|------------------------|
G |-----------7-5----------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
D |-------9--------0--4--5-|------------------------|
B |------------------------|------------------------|
G |-6--7-----7--5----------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
(Note: Hammer-on/Pull-off triplet at 2nd fret on 1st beat below)
D |-0H2P0----0-----0--4--5-|------------------------|
B |-------2-----1----------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
D |----0-----------0--4--5-|------------------------|
B |-------0-----1----------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |-0----------------------|------------------------|
B |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
D |----0-----------0--4--5-|------------------------|
B |----------0--1----------|------------------------|
G |-------2----------------|------------------------|
D |-0----------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
Turnaround at 12th fret:
D |-12-12-12-11-10---------|------------------------|
B |-12-12-12-11-10----12-12|------------------------|
G |-------------------12-12|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
G |------------------------|------------------------|
D |------------------------|------------------------|
----1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&---1--&--2--&--3--&--4--&
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Gary |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/28/2004 : 02:31:10 AM
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Mahalo! Thanks for writing those out, Gary!
Jesse Tinsley |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 4:11:56 PM
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Gary (and others),
On the fifth turnaround you tabbed out, you're supposed to hammer on then pull off the second fret of the first string. But how do you hammer on or pull off without getting some buzz from the bar? Whenever I touch a string without having my hand down first to mute it, I get an annoying buzz. Any tips?
Jesse Tinsley |
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sandman
Lokahi
USA
181 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 4:58:21 PM
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Are steel guitar and nylon strings oxymorons? 
Sandy |
Leap into the boundless and make it your home.
Zhuang-zi |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 5:39:47 PM
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Sandy:
Well.... Having seen Jake Shimibukuro play a ukulele with a steel slide, let's not rule out the possibility. However you won't get the sustain that steel strings are famous for. The good news is this: You can buy any old guitar at a garage sale for cheap without worrying about if the neck is warped or worn down. Pop a nut extender on it, and it will sound and play like the real thing. My first steel guitar cost me $9, and I still play it when I go to the beach. The other great news is that your fingers won't ever have to suffer from the pain of pressing on steel strings. It seems to me that the steel guitar is particularly good for people who have a good ear. Without frets, your ear is doing a lot more work to fine tune your playing. Some people have well coordinated left hands, others have more coordination in their right hand. The steel requires less from the left hand, and more from the right.
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Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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Gary A
Lokahi
USA
169 Posts |
Posted - 10/31/2004 : 7:28:26 PM
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Jesse, if you do the hammer-on/pull-off quick enough then the bar noise isn't too noticible (and if you're doing it slowly you can always pick the individual notes).
It is possible to execute a hammer-on cleanly, although it's easier to show than describe. Before doing the hammer-on, the side of your little finger should be lightly anchored on the 3rd and/or 4th strings near the nut and the bar should be in your hand held above the strings. Then rotate your wrist so the bar comes down on the string. As you're doing the rotation the free fingers of your hand come down to mute the string. Make sure your bar is tilted slightly so you're only hitting the 1st string.
(Note I editted the above paragraph a few hours after I originally posted it to correct it and make it a little clearer)
For the pull off you can either just lift the bar (it sounds a little weak but it's "good enough") or you can try pushing in slightly with the bar then pulling it towards your body so the string pops free and has more of a twang. Your muting fingers have to come clear of the string before you pop the string free.
If it doesn't sounds clean, try practicing very, very slowly while looking and listening closely to see what needs to be changed in your technique. Once you can execute it cleanly slowly then try doing it more quickly.
Steel guitar is much less forgiving than other instruments, such as guitar, when it comes to technique. You really need good technique to get a good sound. This idea of practicing slowly is an excellent way to work on your steel guitar technique.
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Gary |
Edited by - Gary A on 11/01/2004 12:24:04 AM |
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