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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 01/14/2005 : 10:11:38 PM
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Sorry, this isn't the answer to the question...
It's the question.
jmk has recently discussed a specific but not well diagnosed finger concern, under 'Talk Story'.
I post here because it would seem guitar playing is perhaps more physical, but it can apply to all of us who are aging, or human, or use our hands for something special.
I have some ideas, but it's to late tonight to blather on...
But I am interested in seeing if there are some good ideas on diet, exercise, protection, health procedures, supplements, and chanting/prayers for our fingers, minds, and the in-between!
Or maybe I should ask for the square root of PI.
But anyway, whether it's acupunture, flaxseed oil (my name here), vitamins and supplements, safe warmups for playing, or something as simple as wearing gloves for equipment loading, work and household chores...I wanna know.
And treatments and good diagnostic ideas would be cool too!
G
P.S. sorry about the Big Wind.
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01/14/2005 : 10:20:42 PM
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And recommendations on things like arthritis, etc. too.
Gotta go to my 12-step meeting for folks who talk too much...
"ONanOnanOn."
And also talk to themselves. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 09:29:49 AM
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I've been playing a long time, and to a certain extent my livelihood depends upon my fingers. About seven years ago after a nuclear scan for a more serious medical condition, I was diagnosed with osteo arthritis in my hands, jaw, knees, collarbone and shoulders -- probably due to many years of surfing. As for my hands, I would have to soak them in hot water for several minutes in the morning to overcome the pain. My GP, orthopedic surgeon and rheumatologist recommended the cox-2 drugs Vioxx and Celebrex. My hematologist said no way, he was concerned about it lowering my white cell blood count further and the drugs not having enough long term study. So I couldn't take the cox-2 route and that turned out to be a good thing.
A colleague of mine, who was teaching voice, suggested the supplement glucosamine chondroitin. She suffered frozen shoulder syndrome, had gone through physical therapy, but her condition didn't improve until she started taking this supplement. My initial reaction was skeptical, but soon after I figured I didn't have any other viable options so I decided to try it.
I started with a 500mg glucosamine tablet a day. My rheumatologist said I could take up to 2000mg a day. I opted for a moderate approach. Within four weeks the pain in my hands subsided and my fingers once again were facile. The other aches and pains of getting up in the morning, had for the most part disappeared. When I told my hematologist about this, he said "Oh yeah, it works. My wife has been taking it for years. It builds up cartilage."
We're not all the same, what works for me may not necessarily work for you. Try and exercise good judgement and ask for advice from the medical professionals. They study these things and have a better grasp on the subject.
Peter M.
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2005 : 11:14:11 AM
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The glucosamine-chondroitin complex does work for osteoarthritis and some skin disorders, and was suggested by my doctor. Unfortunately, since I am a Factor 11 (there are 14 factors) hemophiliac, I can't take the chondroitin (which inhibits platelets from helping coagulate blood; and the same thing happens with NSAIDs, so I am truly behind the 8-ball) and just manage with the glucosamine sulfate - so I am losing about half the benefit. So, try it, but if you have a blood disorder, or are taking a blood thinner like coumadin/warfarin or are already on NSAIDS or aspirin, check with your doc first.
...Reid |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 07:11:35 AM
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I figure I haven't been steady with the Glucosamine...
doubt I had 4 weeks of regime...
I don't have severe hand problems yet, but why wait.
So back on that Gluc...
I currently take Flax Oil (by the tablespoon--yum) on the recommendation of a friend, and my back arthritis has significantly subsided--without Glucosamine...
I believe it's fairly benign at worst...in moderation.
Omega stuff, but also saturated fat and oils...so watch my non medical advice...it just seems effective.
Another problem area is from REPETITIVE PIMA rolls affecting the muscles just below the right elbow...
I believe I use decent playing/ hand position, so I figure this problem requires warmups and taking occassional breaks...
Alas, the musician breaks weren't devised for the parking lot social... Another late epiphany.
On a ridiculously simple note, I am RELIGIOUS about wearing gloves for load-ins, yard work, car stuff, and moving firewood, furniture and misc.
But sometimes I miss church, and it only takes a moment to get careless!
Also, Mark O'Conner said he never stresses he never carries loads on the fingers...
And this sneaks in easily, since unloading the car late after a road trip I want to get in and overload...sometimes an instrument or bag on every finger! I confess.
P.S. Mark O'...is a fiddle hero...
but also world-class at everything he plays.
One other area--especially in the Colorado winter--cracking fingers...especially at the fingertips--to the point of bleeding and pain.
Frustrating when you want practice!
And I've done Bag Balm at night, and every hand concoction around.
except super-glue...a field dressing in Viet Nam...
Can one play with this on fingers? I've come close to trying.
Currently, I'm trying Aquaphor by Eucerin...with band-aids at night...
The cracking may not be such a concern for those lucky enough to be in Hawaii or even the west coast. Ah, humidity...and sea air.
But our mountains can be heaven out past the sprawl...
And it's a DRY COLD. |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 07:15:59 AM
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Never say never--twice.
Mark O'Conner recommends NOT stressing the fingers with loads. |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2005 : 4:46:41 PM
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Aloha all,
If you have an allergy to shellfish, skip the gloucosamine. It contains, shrimp a/o krill a/o crab a/o lobster. Not all brands have the warning on the box. Also, skip the controitin if you have vegetable allergies, though I'm not certain which.
MSN is a good supplement because it's naturally-occuring (sulpher? - old person suffering from CRS) When Vioxx went off the market, my doc put me on lodine since it's a different type of drug.
I buy boxes of those fingertip bandaids from the 99-cent store and use them at night with neosporan which seems to clear up cracks quickly. Also, lots of us use superglue for finger cracks as a temp solution, but I doubt it would be good for you in the long run. Females will keep their skin in way better shape if they take estrogen past menopause, and men, there seems to be more literature coming out regarding hormones and classic problems of aging such as thin skin.
Gordon, I love going to Hawai'i for many reasons and among them is that I feel way better, my skin heals up and is comfortable and I can breathe better. It's not very humid here in the west, not like the east in summer. But I've very limited experience in that.
Keep in mind I'm retired aerospace, and know nothing from the "practicing medicine" side, but just the recipient side. I just have the problems lots of us have.
Hope this helps someone -
auntie |
nancy cook |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 11:35:56 AM
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Gordon,
You bring up a very good point -- the muscles that go down to your fingers do run up through your arm, and are actually connected to muscles that go up through your shoulder and joind muscles in your chest and back area. One of the reasons for stressing sitting up straight and holding the guitar in a manner similar to those bad guys known as classical guitarists is that it aligns that muscles pathway and reduces a lot of stress. Ther are also a few good excercises to deal with that stress point at your elbow, but I don't know how to put them in words -- a competant PT/OT should be able to help.
I remember discussing similar issues a few times before, so there should be great info in some past threads. Lots of books have good diagrams, materials. I thought "Playing Less Hurt," though not exclusively for guitar, was a good read. Also practitioners of Alexander and Feldenkries methods have a lot of good input for musicians.
Playing guitar is a very athletic activity and, like in athletics, there are people who believe in watching their technique to minimize injury, and others who think that's nonsense and just go out and play. In the end, everybody ends up retiring at some point -- it's just a question of how soon you want to do that and if you want to be forced into it by early onset pain. |
Edited by - RJS on 01/17/2005 5:01:24 PM |
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jmk
Lokahi
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 12:39:55 PM
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Jeff Peterson lectures a lot about proper hand position. In a nutshell: picking hand knuckles should be right over the string you are plucking--to get the position, lay your hand flat across the strings w/knuckles over the appropriate string, then raise the hand keeping the alignment. This allows use of reflex instead of 'effort' to uncoil the finger after stricking the string. Keep the thumb out of the way of the fingers & use an oval striking motion. Fretting hand wrist straight, fingertips perpendicular to fretboard. use the classical position/posture of upright body, fretting hand high. Hope this makes sense--it's easier to demomstrate.
Last Sat. night I noticed John Keawe had perfect hand position and his playing looked effortless. |
Nahenahe |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 12:46:38 PM
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Peter,
Your situation is not at all uncommon; that your doc knows about glucosamine but would not reccomend it. As with almost all nutritional supplements, or neutraceuticals, the medical community has an inherent fear of dooing anything or suggesting/prescribing any thing that has not had FDA stamp of approval, peer revviewed studies, and all that. They do not like ot believe anecdotal evidence, no matter how much there is of it. One of my own orthopedic docs (I have now gone through 5 in the last 41 years) says, "yes the stuff works, but I won't reccomend it to you even though I use it myself"! Afraid of law suits or something. And, I would take exception to the statement you made that '...doctors study these things.' It is much more common for doctors to ignore anything they hear outside of what the drug comapnies tell them, and nutritionals like glucosamine/chondroitin have no sales reps that call and give out free samples and take the docs to lunch, etc..
Gordon, 4 weeks is often not enough for one to evaluate results.....now you have to remember that i am a vet, not a RD, but I use lots of this stuff in my practice, as do many of my clients (on themselves as wwell as their dogs), and i have found that it can take anywhere from 2-8 weeks for positive results, and these supplements only work in about 40-80% of patients, dog or human. AND< v ery important; not all glucosamine is the same!!! There are several brands I have found to be much more effective than others; these are the ones that give 80% effectiveness. They are also, usually, the more expensive brands. I know this from my own personal usage over the past ten years for lower back problems. I don;t think this open forum would be the place to mention brand names (Andy?) but i would be happy to reply in private which have worked best for me and my patients.
And, it has helped with the lower back, but does nothing for m knees! Go figure.
Someone mentioned getting only half the effect because he cannot take chondroitin; i think the jury is still out as to how much effect the chondroitin actually has. Most benefit is from the glucosamine, I think. I usually start my patients on the brand I consider to be the 'gold standard'; if they have good results within 2-8 weeks, we switch them to one of the lesser expensive brands, among which is a straight glucosamine product, and it seems to work in most dogs that respond to the gold standard combo brand. Also works OK in me on my back.
I need to enter the OnanOnanOn program, too. Where do i sign up, brudda Gordon? |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2005 : 9:48:33 PM
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Boulder Colorado. It's self-help center of the Universe, Karl.
The Boulder Bookstore moved up the mall because the self-help section got too big! True story.
And there's a new auto insurance for co-dependents there..."It's my fault".
Have I used that joke before?
Has anyone else heard or tried the the Flax seed oil? pros or cons.
Hey, just saw "Super Size Me" ...
some more food for thought.
I know I'm still a little too sugured up.
Anyhoots, Good feedback guys, Tanks.
G
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2005 : 04:41:45 AM
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I've had capsule tears on several joints of my fingers and the only thing I can imagine that caused them is overloading my fingers with carrying things. So I second what Mark O'Connor recommends: don't overload your finger joints.
Ironically, it seldom affected my playing guitar, so I deduced that it wasn't *from* playing guitar. But it sure was painful whenever a finger was stressed sideways. And most of them took about 9 months to heal (the first took longer, because I didn't understand what was going on and kept reinjuring it).
Also, I think doing something to humidify your house helps with the winter dry skin phenomenon (as well as helping your guitars).
aloha,
Sarah |
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