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chip
Aloha
Canada
38 Posts |
 Posted - 02/22/2005 : 5:37:08 PM
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Help help help, please!!I`am having trouble trying to figure out which way to go [up or down ] on some tunings, raising a string up from standed, 4 semi tones, is that too much?? for guitar & string, do I have to change a string, when the rise is to high. Some songs can be capoed, what did the Masters do when there were no capos, in the middle of a concert they can`t stop to change strings, or may be they did ?? I.E. Raymond Kanes - Waialae - F tuning from low F C E G C E do f,c,e go up does c go up 4 semis? Open G tuning on reg. guitar G B D G B D lap slide, change the low string ?? Yes ?? I`ve never seen these questions addressed in five of my beginner slack key books, Look forward to all help, Thank you all Chip
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2005 : 8:54:35 PM
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Chip,
Don't make it hard on yourself. I have never had a problem using the same strings, going from CFCGCE to DGDGBD toEBEAbBE to high dobro GBDGBD and back to open C, even tuned down to AEAEADb with no problems. OK, at the lowest tunings, below CGCGCE, you might get some string buzz if you drop that two whole tones. And, you tend to break some strings when you re-tune up and down a lot, but there are music stores that sell single strings (only one out of the three stores in ur town does) so you can pick up extras. I usually break the 1st or second strings, a few 3rds, one each 4th and 5th, never a 6th string. And, even the 1st string breakage does not happen until after a dozen or more journeys from D to E and back.
Another way to lessen the re-tunings and therefore the breakaage problem, is to play or practice all your songs in one tuning before going to the next tuning. Or, have six different guitars laying around, each tuned to a diferent tuning.
As far as up or down goes, if you are in standard and it calls for taropatch, tune down strings 1, 5, and 6. If you have a chromatic tuner, just hit a string and go to the desired pitch. And, if in dout still as to go up or down, take the shortest route. If the string in question is in E, and the tuning says D, drop two steps, don't go up 10! The F tuning you diagrammed would require tuning the 6th string up two frets (from standard), the 5th string up 3 frets, 4th string up 2 frets, 3rd and 1st stay where they are, and the 2nd goes up 1 fret. That's a pretty high pitched tuning, but most guitars should handle it OK, and the strings don't care that much, unless you have a set of heavys on there.
Hey, where is Stringbreaker when you need him?? |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 07:25:05 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chip
Help help help, please!!I`am having trouble trying to figure out which way to go [up or down ] on some tunings, raising a string up from standed, 4 semi tones, is that too much?? for guitar & string, do I have to change a string, when the rise is to high. Some songs can be capoed, what did the Masters do when there were no capos, in the middle of a concert they can`t stop to change strings, or may be they did ?? I.E. Raymond Kanes - Waialae - F tuning from low F C E G C E do f,c,e go up does c go up 4 semis? Open G tuning on reg. guitar G B D G B D lap slide, change the low string ?? Yes ?? I`ve never seen these questions addressed in five of my beginner slack key books, Look forward to all help, Thank you all Chip
I have always restricted my own range to -5 to +3 semitones without changing. The F C and E would be up: From Standard +1 +3 +2 0 1 0 as displacement, so the second C is raised only one semitone, where the first is up three. The open G B D G B D is more of a steel guitar version, as the G would be up three semitones. I reject this variant for my own use, my bottom string doesn't LIKE that, although it will in a pinch. Sometimes if a tuning is too high, going down and using a capo will help. Trying F# A# C# F# A# C# works a little better as the bottom goes up only two semitones and most guitars can handle the C# at the top without swapping. Although thickening the gauge if you spend a lot of time with the top string down would probably help. But when playing solo, matching pitch to somebody else is a little less importand, so go ahead and play in F# instead. My book does not address the substitution issue directly either, but the -5 to +3 range is usually safe and further restricting it to -4 to +2 would ensure a more acceptable range. If you stick to -5 to +3 you get 531,441 possibilities, so don't worry about running out of options. Try to avoid lap steel tunings on an ordinary steel string, they often have custom sets just for the higher pitch tunings.
I know this is a lot to throw back at you so quickly, but it will get you up and moving.
Stringbreaker |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 10:12:37 AM
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quote:
I`ve never seen these questions addressed in five of my beginner slack key books
I'd suggest you go back and take another look at those books. F'rinstance, here's a quote from pg 23 of "Learn to Play Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar" on getting into Taro Patch from standard:
"Begin by lowering your first string to D..., then lower your fifth string to G, an octave below the third string and the sixth to D, an octave below the fourth string." (emphasis added.)
Each of the sections on different tunings in this book have equally explicit instructions.
Ditto, here's pg 17 of Ozzie's Book: "...the sixth string is lowered from E to D."
Be aware that it is fairly common to raise a string or two a slight bit -- so the F tuning Keola plays in a lot (C-F-C-G-C-E) has the 2nd string raised a semitone. The three bottom strings are all dropped from standard. (see "Learn to Play..." pg 102.)
And yeah, maybe sometimes you could raise a string a minor third, like the F tuning you mentioned. Tho' that is pretty rare.
Also, it is very common for someone to take a tuning and raise or lower the whole thing a tad -- like Cyril's D tuning that he raises to Eb, or Ray Kane's F taropatch (taropatch dropped a whole step.)
So, when faced with an unexpected tuning, the first thing I'd suggest is to see if you can get there by lowering a string. If it looks like it's up a semitone or two, go for it -- you'll find most of the tunings that raise one or two strings will also lower something, which helps with the overall tension.
Lastly: G-B-D-G-B-D "lap slide" is a dobro tuning, called "high G." The old Hawaiian steel players usually played in A -- so everything up a step. It's related to "Low G" (or "Low A") which is just Taro Patch.
Like the man says, don't put your guitar into this tuning without special strings - raising the three lowest strings from standard tuning using a regular set of guitar strings will hurt your guitar big-time. Dobros, Weissenborns (the new ones, at least) etc are built to handle the extra tension.
Incidentally -- the "no capos" question is a good one. However, in the first place, capos have been around longer than slack key.
But I have heard many great, and not so great, players play long sets without using a capo and you can, too. What you do is move between related tunings to change keys and get different harmonies without tons of string cranking.
So: from taro patch to drop C: move one string (lower the 6th to C).
From there to Keola's C, move one string: (raise the 1st to E.) BTW: In either Drop C or Keola's C, you can easily play in F without a capo by using barre chords.
From Keola's C to G sixth: move one string.
From G sixth to Taro: ditto. From Taro to G wahine: ditto.
Likewise there are bunches of equally close pairs starting from any tuning you want. It's a lot easier than you think. Remember: the Hawaiian figured out the easiest way to play the guitar in the universe. No need to make it complicated.
So -- relax, take a deep breath, and go tune your guitar.
cheers,
Mark |
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chip
Aloha
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2005 : 8:06:51 PM
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| What else can I say!! But thank you all! for your help & comments, Stringbreaker the minus & pluses, thats perfect for me [Thanks]- Mark I have yours & Keola`s learn to p h s k g.& am enjoying it very much, the going down wasn`t too bad, the going up has been solved, but I still take in deep breaths, going past a tone, your other comments will take me some time to absorb,Its great to have all yours help, I |
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