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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
 Posted - 08/14/2002 : 4:05:46 PM
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I'm new to the site, but not all that new to slack key (though truth be told, I haven't expanded past taro patch tuning  ). Anyway, Aloha everyone. I'm currently tabbing out my small selection of my own slack key songs to put up on a website, so that other players, especially new ones, have some 'easy' pieces to learn, maybe draw some ideas from before they start takling the masters. I'm doing this in response to people who have inquired about the style following open mic performances I've done.
I'm curious to see whether or not other players out there would be interested in contributing thier own personal songs to add to the collection. The main reason for this is to expose more people to the style. My current guitar tab site http://www.mindspring.com/~rd2ruin/music.html (which, admittedly, does contain a couple questionably copywritten material) has mostly my own personal versions of songs and handles a lot of traffic a month. By linking to this from that one, I hope to generate more interest in slack key to keep the current resurgance going.
Let me know what you all think. I know some of you are concerned about copywrites, so I'm not going to throw Ledward's songs up there, but if you think it's a good idea, I'll start prepping a site and start asking for contributions in the future.
Cheers!
- Greg
When you get a moment, could you do me a favor and explain to me what I was just talking about?
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 01:01:43 AM
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Your sight looks interesting. Since I've never played in "standard tuning" I don't know if I would use any of that, but you have material I like.
As to slack key -- I know the professionals/teachers who gave me copies of their music and/or arrangements -- and I would never post their material without permission. The same is true of my own arrangements of songs by living artists. (I am also a published author, know the work it took for me to produce the books and articles that were published, and frankly feel angry when someone rips me off without first asking me. -- and I've never turned down anyone who asked me.)
As to my own music. Currently I've only "given" one of my songs to my teacher, who wanted to play it at some of his concerts. I'm looking forward to geting a CD together within the next 24 months, and basically want to be the first one to perform my compositions. Once they're out, I don't think I'll have a problem posting them.
Raymond
San Jose
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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 3:00:11 PM
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Standard tuning, spanish tuning . If I'd had said spanish tuning on the page, 99% of the world wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
What I had in mind were simple contributions, like little pieces that haven't necessarily blown into full songs, but might offer some bits and pieces for students learning to draw some ideas from. At least long enough to sound like a song they can play. I'm still not good enough to go through "Keala's Mele" and unfortunately, a lot of books I've read have two speeds. Very beginner (here's the tuning) or very advanced (here's Ozzie Kotani) with very little for the struggling musician without a ton of time to pile into learning point A to point Z. This is very frustrating for people like me who live in Atlanta and the thought of taking lessons isn't an option, since I've yet to meet anyone who's heard of it much less teaches it. I dont have the patience to tab all mine out, so I'm just putting shells of songs together.
Yes, slack key good. Ripping off people's works bad.
Cheers!
quote:
As to slack key -- I know the professionals/teachers who gave me copies of their music and/or arrangements -- and I would never post their material without permission. Raymond
San Jose
When you get a moment, could you do me a favor and explain to me what I was just talking about? |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 4:59:10 PM
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Greg,
Oh, maybe a collection of standard riffs, too? Is that part of what you mean? Mark Hanson's book has some standard chord progression licks that run the length of the fretboard, some picking patterns, and some chord change licks for Taro Patch that I run thru now and then. I'm sure something on that order could be done without ripping off Mr. Hanson. I've seen another set of chord progressions that George K. distributes at his workshops. That kind of thing would be very useful since a lot of these get used over and over, almost too much, but they are the basic vocabulary of a lot of slack key. I'd love to see a collection of these at least in Taro Patch.
I think you have a great idea. I wish I knew more and could contribute, but I'm still at the steal from others stage. I might even steal some of your Spanish tuning tabs, but I don't think I have any guitars in that tuning at the moment. :^)
Pauline |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 08/16/2002 : 9:00:12 PM
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Just as a note of historic interest, among bluesmen "Spanish" tuning referred to Open G, our own Taropatch. The name was taken from the tune "Spanish Fandango," a parlor guitar piece written in open G. The name for Open D was "Vestapol" which was the name of a prototypical parlor guitar piece in that tuning.
Fran
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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 02:28:28 AM
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quote:
Just as a note of historic interest, among bluesmen "Spanish" tuning referred to Open G, our own Taropatch.
Sheesh, and I thought I knew something about the blues. But you're right. Apparently I'm one of the 99% (worse yet, I didn't think I was!). I'll have to say three hail mary's and re-learn all of Robert Johnson's songs for penance.
I am happy with the responses I have received so far, especially since I may have initially stated my intentions poorly. And Pauline has the right idea. Something like "Radio Hula" is chock full of standard runs. I've incorporated some of them into my own stuff, although I've never taken the time to learn the whole song straight through. I've played them with different timings, with different progressions since, as Pauline correctly points out, the whole song is the (as I consider it) almost ultimate of a collection of standards in the world of standard slack key, in the formations of third chords and all that.
Mark Hanson's stuff is great and I've bought a couple of his books. And, as a personal note, "Sprouting Horn" is one of the most beautiful pieces of music ever written. But I get stuck in C Wahine because that song is the only one I've really learned, so everything I've attempted in the tuning winds up sounding something like it. I think a lot of players are like this, especially starting out. I have a ton of taro patch stuff, but moving to different tunings requires more effort (for me, at least) and there isn't a lot of stuff out there on the web to draw from. This is the gap I intend to fill. Surely everyone here has some simple melodies they've written that will help the fledgling artists draw from, without having to divuldge entire arrangements. Stuff that will seperate the copiers who are just out there parroting songs they've pirated off the web from those who can use that to build a new appreciation for slack key.
Okole maluna!
- Greg |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2002 : 03:27:21 AM
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Greg,
Melodies? Melodies abound. There are all sorts of melodies in the public domain. I could probably noodle off a bunch of them (tho' some might be copies of heard but forgotten songs) if quality is not a big issue. Is there something special about slack key melodies? Whoop! There is a Franz Schubert melody that I would love to have in a better arrangement. The only one I've ever heard is a manic arpeggio in midi. It may have too much range to fit easily on 3 strings.
Single line melodies or noodles are the easy part, if that's what you mean by melodies. It's arranging them into slack key that mystifies me. And then adding the ornaments and vamps. Those, the ornaments and vamps are what I meant by slack key vocabulary. It would be wonderful if you could put the dictionary on your site.
Following the metaphor, melodies could be the plot outlines. Skillfully putting the two together would produce a song. Add original ideas to make it non-banal. Reid, and others, might point out that it would strictly be a haole piece of slack key without Hawaiian words or at least a rhythmic structure that supports the cadence of Hawaiian words. That would be a concern for the individual song writer, or maybe there are some easy rules to follow for non-speakers. The unilingual in me longs for verses in English, but Hawaii's safe, I'm no poet.
You'll need sections for the major tunings. One for Taro Patch. One for C Wahine to get you started.
It's late and I get fanciful when it's late. Is this what you were looking for?
Pauline |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2002 : 4:25:15 PM
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No offense intended, but I don't understand why people ae in such a hurry to learn new tunings. I've been playing Taro Patch practically every day for the last three years and I'm still being surprised by what I find and can be done in Taro Patch. I think I'm beginnng to catch on to what Sonny Chiilingworth meant when he said that lots of good players can learn a few songs in a lot of different tunings, but it takes a real master to pick one tuning and be able to play any and every song well in that tuning. I don't identify with the master part, but I'm beginnng to see what it means to really understand one tuning.
I guess it's like sex partners -- lots of different partners is certainly exciting, but staying with one and getting real good at things has a lot of advantages.
Raymond
San Jose, CA
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kihoalukid
Lokahi
USA
289 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2002 : 10:47:53 PM
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eh brah, wat, i goin do nottin but the missionary position, but i goin
get really good at it?, dats pilau!. hee hee, seriously tho, thats a good
point you made, in my case i think id go nuts sticking to one tuning.
i think my brains got a short circuit or something.
heck ive even been subjectin my axe baby to (whisper-standard
tuning), for some acoustic fingersyle blues. too many tunings, too little
time.
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2002 : 12:01:38 AM
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Sonny Chillingworth imparted those thought regarding number of tunings (as mentioned by RJS) to his student Ozzie Kotani. Ozzie has spoken about and demonstrated that just about any song can be played in Taro Patch tuning. Whether it is old style slack key, a waltz or jazz, one tuning is extremely versatile if explored fully. Ozzie also plays quite a bit in Leonard's C.
Now on the flip side of that argument, playing a few different tunings can be a really good exercise (for me at least). I was going to mention this in a separate topic but since you all are talking about tunings... I've recently been playing the same song(s) in Taro Patch, C Wahine, (shhh!) Standard, and on my `uke in C. Not doing this to be a show off, but it helps me think about keys a lot more than if I were just playing in one tuning. Since I usually do not give music theory much thought, it has been a helpful exercise in getting my brain to think a little about intervals (I-IV-V) and how a song translates from guitar to `uke or from one guitar tuning to another. Just good practice and it forces my brain think a little instead of just taking the key of G for granted in Taro Patch.
Of course, this is a total aside from the topic of mastering one or two tunings, but I thought it worth mentioning.
Andy |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/21/2002 : 10:46:35 PM
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Andy
Excellent point. Gives me the justification I need to branch out, maybe.
Lately I've been trying to transpose songs within Taro Patch. That will allow me to modulate between tunings while playing the same song. Na Leo does this a lot. (Of course having three drop dead gorgeous voices that blend perfectly in tight harmony doesn't hurt.) In Taro Patch C and D aren't too bad depending on where you voice the song. (They're real easy if you're just strumming or picking chords as accompaniment.) If you want to drive yourself crazy, try Eb.
Raymond
San Jose
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cgriffin
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 08/22/2002 : 2:42:23 PM
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I just started playing Slack Key, and i've only ventured as far as Taro Patch. After playing in standard tuning since i was 10 (20 years ago), it is a bit like learning a new language - although I find that my fingers quickly are learning what to do. I also occasionally drop the 3rd string G to F# for G double-slack.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to sight-read music without tablature in the slack-key tunings, but that would be great.
One thing that standard tuning gives you is a certain ease in playing scales in one position on the neck. It's been a bit hard for me to give that up. The other thing is that in standard tuning I had a full knowlege of how to play chords all over the neck, and now I feel like I'm swimming in a strange ocean in which I cannot find the chord I want. I guess I'll eventually learn everything I need to know. But the following thought really scares me:
After playing so long in standard tuning, I still felt like i really didn't know how to play guitar. Now I'm wondering how I'll ever get to the point where I feel like I know how to play when I am going to be working with so many different tunings?
Does the knowlege of playing in one tuning truly cross over into knowlege about the others? I'm not used to thinking about chord structure and intervals, but I guess I might have to start if I'm going to learn how to swim in the slack-key world.
Best,
Chris
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Chris Griffin
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 03:07:43 AM
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Chris,
The psychologist in me is chomping at the bit in terms of perfectionism, etc, but I will confine myself.
What made a tremendous difference to me is a few lessons with an experience slack key player. (I had some music theory from playing keyboards for a few years) He helped me translated my basic understanding to the fretboard in Taro Patch, which is what I was interested in learning at the time. At that time I feel I had a good elementary grasp of the tuning and was able to work out other people's arrangements. Then I started some very intesive work with George Kaumoku. In all honesty, I feel very comfortable in Taro Patch -- and I'm learning something new every day. I've started to play with Keola's C, and a one evening workshop that Keola gave gave me the tools I need to adapt my knowledge to the new fretboard.
To summarize: 1) I can't understate how important I think even a few lessons are. 2) I know I will never play as good as Keola, Ozzie, Led, George, etc. I just want to make beautiful music to the best that I can.
Raymond
san Jose
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rd2ruin
Akahai
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2002 : 07:47:27 AM
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Well, I guess I oughta chime in, since I started the thread. I finished a couple of my songs in tablature, and realized one thing, probably the same thing everyone else realized once I proposed my idea (wayyyyy up there at the top). I'm not sure I want to put my stuff up on the web, not knowing who was 'borrowing' it. I can't get lessons here in Atlanta, so I guess I'll have to learn it the old fashioned way; lots of hours, lots of reading, and lots of practice. Good thing I got laid off a couple months ago so I have the time.
However, I still think it would be a good idea to establish a page for the 'tweeners who have hit 'The Wall'. I'm just not sure how I'm going to approach that since I dont have the experience, yet. Every riff I have eventually gets into one of my songs sooner or later. I'm hording them, they're too personal to toss out there. Once out there, you dont know who's gonna go willy-nilly with them. Next thing you know, I've completed a song that has a certain part that sounds vaguely similiar to something someone else already has copyright to. And I dont say willy-nilly often, so I'm serious here.
As far as everyone's comments on learning tunings, I think I'm going to anchor myself in taro patch for awhile. It took me 14 years of shredding heavy metal in regular old tuning to find this one, no need to rush.
Cheers!
- Greg
When you get a moment, could you do me a favor and explain to me what I was just talking about? |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2002 : 2:01:59 PM
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Greg,
This may seem either too obvious or not practical, but --
one very interesting use of vacation time is to visit some place where there is a slack key teacher.
I spent lots of time listening to cd's, working with the material available at that time, but I needed something more.
When I couldn't find a teacher over here, I pre-arranged with a master in Hawai'i for some instruction time, and we went there. I got what I needed slack key wise. My wife got some beach and shopping time. The only problem was that Hawai'i was such a drag we couldn't wait to get back (yeah, right.)
Raymond
San Jose
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