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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 03/02/2006 : 10:27:39 AM
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This site is so helpfull. I learned about strings and squeeking just a few days ago and it was valuable info. Thanks to those that contributed.
I have trouble with intonation on my classical guitars. I have been "pumping nylon" for years but the open tunings, especially G Wahine, gives a whacky 3rd string intonation--or maybe the others changed relative to the 3rd string. Anyway, it has to be set flat 1.14 cents (open)to make it acceptably in tune when fretted up the neck. Specifically, the song "Sanoe" arr by keola highlights the problem. What do the experinced TP members do about the tuning problem (besides play it on steel which keeps it's intonation better)?
I bought a Peterson VSAM tuner (big bucks) because it is progammable and I can save compensated tunings. Without it, the "sweet spot" is hard to recreate by ear. Do many of you intonate and dedicate a guitar to a specific tuning?
Bob
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Bob |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 11:12:20 AM
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The intonation on fat unwound nylon strings can be or can go off. How old is the string? Try a new one. If none are handy try reversing the current string end for end; put the end that was on the roller on the bridge and the bridge end on the roller.
You may have better luck with a composite carbon fiber string instead of nylon since the composite strings are thinner. Or you may have luck with compensating your saddle. What note do you tune your third string to for G Wahine?
What do you mean by compensated tuning?
Nylon strings get so quirky when their tuning changes, that yeah, having a guitar for each tuning would be great, expensive and space taking, but great.   |
Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 03/02/2006 11:17:56 AM |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 2:26:59 PM
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Interesting topic.
I'm still a novice compared to you folks, but my experience echos everything jwn writes. Can only add that my Ramirez responds well to the D'Addario Pro Arte' composite third string in both C and F wahine.
Larry |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 3:31:56 PM
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I've been playing nylon for some time, so here are a few comments.
- I was having problems on one string, took my guitar to a local luthier. Bit of an adjustment on the nut took care of the problem. If yours bothers you and you don't want to fiddle with the tuning adjustment, you might want to check out a luthier/guitar repair guy.
- The carbon strings might solve the problem, and they will give you more volume. However, I think you loose some of the softness and poetry. Still worth checking the Hannabach's High Tension Carbon Trebles. (I wouldn't go to extra high tension - overkill)
- I'm very impressed. Your ear can hear a 1.14 cent difference. That's below the threshold for a lot of us. You must have a very developed sense of hearing. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 4:37:17 PM
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To RJS
I only wish I had kind of ability! But then again, people with perfect pitch are tortured by things like lights buzzing at a non standard pitch. No, I do not have any special musical powers, but I do have a virtual strobe tuner that tells me what the pitch is within .01 of a cent. Believe me, the difference of the compensated pitch that I use and the acutual pitch of G is probably noticable by most musicians. It's a little flat open, and a little sharp fretted but is a workable compromize. Both my classicals (with new strings or not) have the same problem in F Wahine.
I have never heard of carbon strings and will find and try them soon. Thanks for telling me about them.
Bob |
Bob |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 4:58:23 PM
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to Pauline,
I tune my third string to G. The entire tuning is CFCGCE. BTW, the guitar is a 30 yr old Alvarez Yairi cy-140 and it is a very responsive guitar. I sometimes pass it up to play my lesser guitars because it resonates so clear and loud and highlights my errors and finger noise. I sometimes like to pretend I am realy good, but this guitar is a bit like Simon Cowell on American Idol, it doesn't always tell me what I want to hear :)
Thanks for your input.
Bob
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 5:24:15 PM
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For an extensive selection of nylon & etc. strings at a reasonable price and reasonable shipping, check www.stringsbymail.com. The owner, Richard, is very helpful as well.
He recently added acoustic guitar strings, so steel-stringers might give his site a glance as well.
By the way, I don't have your ear; I had an atrocious 3rd string on a uke, but it was off by 5 cents as soon as I fretted it. I replaced the cheap nylon string with a composite string. |
Pauline |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 6:49:30 PM
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string by mail is a great site to shop
always very prompt service
once I got a bad set and Richard sent the replacements overnight at no extra charge |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/02/2006 : 7:10:36 PM
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Pauline,
I may be mistaken about the cents and I certainly don't have a special ear. For instance, there is no way that I can play a fretless instument in tune. This is the story...The tuning gods were with me one day and I found the sweet spot for that string. I went to my tuner and when the stobe settled, it was 1.14 (something) flat and I programmed it into my personal settings. since the tuner claims to detect .01 of a cent, I assumed that it was cents. Tuned normally however, the pitch sounds so horrible that anyone could notice it...probably due to the other notes that accomapany it in the chord.
Thanks for responding.
Bob |
Bob |
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geo
Aloha
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 06:51:00 AM
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I have had the exact same problem and found that through trying different strings it could be eliminated. I use high tension strings and found that Luthier 35 HT work the best for 3rd string intonation up the neck. Strings that did not work include Savarez Alliance HT (the 3rd string is thinner than the Luthier and Hannabach HT.
Geo. |
George Thomas |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 10:29:03 AM
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Hi Bob,
This is really not going to be helpful (how's that for a preface?), but all kinds of things can cause intonation problems. A bad set of strings, bad nut, poorly shaped saddle, high action, worn frets, warped neck, can all cause the problem. Perhaps you can trouble shoot? Like lots of folks mentioned, changing strings might help. Otherwise, you may be looking at something that a guitar tech or luthier may need to diagnose. |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2006 : 5:25:28 PM
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The reason I wanted input was because I don't want to mess with the nut or saddle just for one tuning. Looks like I may have to do it anyway or find a better string combination. And thanks to all for the string suggestions. One last note, I change strings on a regular basis.
Thanks
Bob |
Bob |
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