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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
 Posted - 08/18/2006 : 07:04:20 AM
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I just got an email which contained the following question. If anyone can answer this, I will be happy to pass it along to Bill.
Aloha,
-Konabob
"Aloha Shirley and Bob,
On Gaby Pahinui's brown album (1st album?), 13th cut it starts with a rift from Woody's Gutherie's This Land is Your Land. The next rift and the one that the song is built upon is a Rolling Stones rift. For the life of me, I can't figure out which song it's from but I think the rift was use only towards the end of the the Stones song. The album obviously had to be cut in the 60s.
Nobody in my family believes me. If you were Stone's fans or know any Stones fans, please listen to the cut and hopefully you will have an answer."
Mahalo. Bill
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Konabob's Walkingbass - http://www.konawalkingbass.com
Taropatch Steel - http://www.konaweb.com/konabob/
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/results?search_type=&search_query=Konabob2+Walkingbass |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 07:35:49 AM
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Hi Bill,
It is the hook and opening riff from Satisfaction.
Peter Medeiros |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 08:42:06 AM
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I do not know which song title you are referring to above on the
Gabby album, but there is a (another?) Hawaiian riff that is strongly
reminiscent of a Rolling Stone song. The into to Kawika on Sunday
Manoa's recording (and some of the bridge) is very similar to the
Rolling Stone's song "Lets spend the night together". I have always
figured it was accidental that the two melodies were similar for a
few bars. The song Kawika is much older than the Rolling Stones, but
the newer licks by Peter Moon with Sunday Manoa are more or less
contemporaneous.
There are also other similar melodic intersections, for instance
the tune "Body Surfing" has similar melodic lines as some parts
of "Hotel California".
This is not surprising with much popular music as the keys and chord
progressions come from a limited universe, so will the melodies, and
eventually there will be some repetition of sequences.
This leads, of course, to a mention of the whole legal battle George
Harrison had over the melody to "My Sweet Lord".
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 08/18/2006 11:58:57 AM |
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Bwop
Lokahi
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 1:31:16 PM
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Aloha,
To my ears, the Stones song would be "Let's Spend The Night Together". |
Bwop |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 3:40:45 PM
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BWOP,
you are right as this pertains to Hula o Makee. Eventhough both Satisfaction and Let's spend the Night Together" use the same chord progression it probably is closer to "Let's spend the Night Together" because of the rhythmic scheme.
I haven't listened to the album in quite a while and answered the question just a few minutes after waking up this morning -- not really the time to be making snap decisions.. But something was bothering me about the question this afternoon -- there was no reference to Hula o Makee which is the 14th cut other than it being based upon the Rolling Stones. Our answers were for the 14th cut. The next riff on the 13th cut -- the song "Ka Moa‘e" -- is played by Atta Isaacs and is based upon a swing band song "In the Mood" by the Glenn Miller Band.
PM |
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wbpiii
Aloha
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2006 : 5:18:08 PM
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This is my question. Thanks to Konabob for posting my it. Peter you are correct in that everyone is talking about cut 14. To my uneducated ear 14 is Let Spend the Night Together. You have correctly identified 13 as the composition I am interested in. I know the second rift is a Stones' song. Although, I can't dismiss that the Stones copied Gaby since I can't determine the date of the album. I think this conundrum is why I am spending so much energy in finding the answer.
thanks
Bill |
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basilking
Lokahi
124 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 7:05:42 PM
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| There's a "middleman" connection between Gabby and the Stones: Ry Cooder. He recorded with both. Don't have the chronology at hand just now but there's a possibility Ry's participation fostered cross-pollination one way or t'other. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2006 : 7:43:07 PM
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In our workshop with George Kuo today, George threw out a bit that pertains. He indicated that Gabby knowingly sought rock'n'roll influences by having his then teenage sons throw in their rock licks for intros and such. I've heard similar stories from Patrick Landeza.
Let's face it, these guys were in the record business and they were not fools. If the Stones were having hit records, then sprinkling a little Stones into their tunes might help them have a hit record, right? And Hawaiian musicians (and English musicians and Cajun musicians and Bach) have always borrowed from "the sounds in the air" when they composed and arranged.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 03:02:58 AM
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About the Ry Cooder "bridge": A friend who has followed this stuff closely all his life emailed me these:
"Here's another interesting connection. Keith Richards didn't start using open G tuning until he started hanging out with Ry Cooder. Shortly before Ry hung with the Stones he did an album with, yep, Gaby Pahinui."
"So as to be clear, both "Satisfaction" and "Let's spend ..." are in standard tuning, I think. And, both were recorded on the island (British island) before Keith met Ry."
"Oh, and one more Ry factoid. He started with the Pahinuis and is still with them. Ry's most recent CD, the fabulous "Chavez Ravine," features Bla Pahinui (vocals, guitar, ukulele) and Led Kaapana (guitar)."
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 06:59:30 AM
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Reid's friend's comments imply a stronger line of Gabby influence than is perhaps the case. Before we get our influences and timelines all tangled up, a number of things are worth noting.
Ry's work with the Stones started while he was still doing studio sessions (1968-69), long after "Satisfaction" but before the Gabby Band sessions in 1974. And Ry was playing in open G long (and D as well) before he played with Gabby & Co. A number of the blues pieces on his early albums are in that key/tuning--"Available Space," for example, on his first LP, released in 1970. Which is not to say Ry hadn't heard slack key early on--he's a SoCal guy, after all, with very big ears.
I'd love to be able to be definite about Ry's slack key connections and timeline, but all attempts to get an interview have been deflected by his management (whose job it is to say no, to be fair).
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wbpiii
Aloha
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 12:22:41 PM
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| Again, the final recording for the Brown Album "Gabby" was done in 1972, April 22 according to the liner notes. Ry Cooter session was in 1974. This logically is not the influence of Ry Cooter. More likely it is the influence of what Gabby's boys were listening to. However, until I indentify the Stones' song and album, I can't say which came first. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2006 : 11:22:41 PM
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God I'm really feeling old. These were songs I would listen to when I was still in my teens. The feel or groove of Ka Moa‘e is country or honky tonk, this is just a hunch but I think the lick that you are looking for is a fiddle lick and comes off of the Stones "Let It Bleed" album -- I think the song is Country Honk, because all of the other cuts were blues and rock. I no longer have the album I know that it came out in 1969 when I graduated from high school. I guess I could ask my daugher if I can download it from her iTunes account that I pay for. The rhythm scheme is ragtime but it's most notable proponent would be the swing era's Glenn Miller, Atta Isaacs chord progression is countryfied open C, I don't know I'll have to listen to it when I get to my office.
PM |
Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 08/20/2006 11:33:10 PM |
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