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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 12/15/2006 : 09:40:19 AM
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Thanks for the link. He (the YouTube guy) says that it is a tenor in DGBE. He is also, in many extended sequences, using that 4th D string as a drone. That is how Pat Cockett characterised the common use of the low G string in many Hawaiian fingerpicked `ukulele pieces in our class at AMC last Feb. The reason what this drone sounds so familiar to me (some of us? :-) as a slack key element is that (here it comes, again:-) in Open G, with alternating bass, the 4th string d, *is* a drone: G-d G-d, G-d D-d, D-d D-d, G-d, G-d, etc. He appears (sounds) to be in reentrant tuning - the 4th string is thin, notice, so he is not dealing with a too floppy string. I would have liked to know more detail, though. He is also playing a medley with a recognizable slack key melody, in part, and he is using what Jesse has called "idioms". It is a really nice sounding performance, if a bit "boxy" :-).
And, yes, that low, cello-like 6th string C is gorgeous. Listen to Sonny's loooooong intro to Makee Ailana on Sonny Solo that he plays in Leonard's C. That was one of the first things Sarah ever learned note-for-note, just because of that phrase-ending C. Killer.
In some of his arrangements, Keola has sections where he rarely, or even never, uses a low bass note. Still sounds swell.
However, there is a place for a different sound without that LOW bass, too. Dennis uses his Baby Taylor to great advantage. And lots of slack key pieces are capoed up. On one, Sarah capos on the 5th fret, which, Ta-Da, is like a `uke in C.
BTW, why has nobody mentioned the adherence of slack key to the major key tone pattern 2212221, or the heavy reliance on parallel 3rds and 6ths?
Also, I want everyone to raise their hands and swear that they will buy Peter's book when it comes out and Russell's book *if* it ever comes out (Come on Russell, we need it). And I will swear never to try to define slack key by putting it into a little tiny category. Let's talk about all the jazz and blues elements Leonard uses, instead.
...Reid |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 7:37:22 PM
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I've been playing music for more then 40 years and I am a bit jaded and somewhat of a critic. Although it makes for interesting reading, I should know better then to respond to the taro board. There are all kinds of people at different stages of their developement. It's not my business why or what people discuss here. My apologies to Sellar and all else. I teach music and am in the habit of guiding people to the right questions. At 3am one morning I gave in and responded to this thread with my personel opinion. I don't wish to argue and debate with people I don't even know. If you want to debate face to face, I'll do that. If you are in the SF bay area come to my ukulele workshop at Gryphon Stringed Instruments in Palo Alto on Jan 6. I think I'll just shut up and play now.
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Stay Tuned... |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 9:16:50 PM
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Ha! We are all just prolonging this thread for rhetorical reasons. Your involvement is always appreciated here, Hiram.
Jesse Tinsley |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/15/2006 : 11:23:18 PM
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| I'm with Hiram: slack key on the ukulele is like Tiny Tim singing a Barry White number. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Sellars
Aloha
Netherlands
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 01:44:12 AM
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lol! Tiny Tim singing a Barry White number 
In response to some suggestions in this thread: I am focussing on the melody strings of a piece. The bass strings are a problem since you obviously only have the low D. On up tempo tunes I like to have a drone-like bass instead of an alternating bass because to my ear it gives it a more driving feel.
somewhat different area, but could the same discussion be held about ragtime and boogiewoogie on an ukulele (or guitar for that matter). In these genres also the bass plays an important role. Nevertheless I have heared rags played on the uke, guitar and mandolin that sound like ragtime to my ear?
That said, I do miss the bass when playing uke. I would love to hear a tenor/baritone uke together with a bass fiddle. That would be a superb experiment. Any of you bass-playing guys in the neiborhood of the Hague, the Netherlands 
anyway, i *do* like the discussion!
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I've always been crazy but that's kept me from going insane (W.J.)
Playing: Ukulele, Slack key guitar, Mandolin |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 07:14:45 AM
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Ragtime was a big influence on Hawaiian music. You can hear the bouncy beat and classic rag chord progressions in Sonny Cunha's "Hapa Haole Hula Gal" and others from the early 20th century. Sol Ho'opi'i used it in "Hula Blues". Boogiewoogie was less influential, I believe.
Hawaiian music was influenced by the popular music of the mainland since the Caucasians arrived. First their were hymns, folk songs, barbershop music of the "gay 90s", ragtime, country-western and the vocal groups like the Mills Brothers. Radio brought sounds back and forth across the Pacific, mixing the genres. Contemporary influences are evident in the music of the Cazimeros from the 1970s and the hiphop of modern Hawai'i. One of my favorites is the rap remix of Gabby's "Hi'ilawe".
Jesse Tinsley |
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Podagee57
Lokahi
USA
280 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 10:02:20 AM
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Hiram, your input has been much appreciated here. Please stick around. We've apparently needed a little controversy here...albeit minor...to wake the Taropatch up.
Seems to all boil down to opinions and I'm sure that we all respect our fellow TPers thoughts regarding their respective preferences. From my perspective, you can play many styles of music in "slack key" tuning, but I don't believe that playing jazz for instance, in that tuning could or should be called "slack key". If you play jazz in slack key tuning, in a jazz style then it is jazz, not traditional Hawaiian slack key. But I don't think any of us would criticize an artist for doing this. To the contrary most of us would applaud them for being innovative. But we may not choose to call it "slack key".
So where do you draw the line or re-categorize music that is done in slack key tuning that strays from that iconic sound that we all associate with traditional slack key. Too much effort to try and not really all that important. But it does imphasize the fact that many genres of music can be performed in this tuning and we'll all probably have an opinion on what it should be called. Main thing is...if you like it then listen to it and enjoy. Nothin' else really matters. All these differing opinions is what makes life...and music so interesting.
I still don't see how you can get that traditional slack key guitar sound out of a uke. But you certainly can tune a uke to some kind of slack key tuning, as evidenced by the video, and it will sound beautiful...but it will sound like a uke.
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What? You mean high "E" is the TOP string. No way dude! That changes everything! |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 1:17:51 PM
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| I think most people here will at least agree that it's not the tuning that makes it "slack key." If it was then the Rolling Stones are the most successful slack key players of all time! (Keith Richards did a lot of stuff in open G.) |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2006 : 1:54:42 PM
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Yeah, Craig, but Keith only used the top 5 strings (true, you could look it up), so the "bass", was totally missing.
A funny thing, Some people around here would listen to slack key only after we told them that KR played in that TP tuning. Wierd.
...Reid
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 12/17/2006 : 09:06:39 AM
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Open G is a common tuning around the world and there's no proof it was first used in Hawaii, even if Hawaiians found it during their own experimentation. But the Hawaiians made the most beautiful music from it. And it has a great major key sound with all those D strings ringing.
Jesse Tinsley |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2006 : 7:25:14 PM
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| Look at the you tube berean315 posted. Very nice imitation of slack key but it is simply a sweet baritone rendition of a slack key piece. There is no bass counterpoint to the parralel thirds and occasional chord arpegios. I hate using fancy language. |
Stay Tuned... |
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Sellars
Aloha
Netherlands
30 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 12:18:47 PM
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Hi Hikabe,
I wished I had a teacher like you in my neighborhood who could teach me both slack key AND music theory, or perhaps the music theory of slack key.
Have you ever considered making an extended post on the patch in which you explain some of the concepts you were just talking about. I have heard some of the terms before, but wouldn't know exactly what they mean, and more important, how to apply them
I for one would be genuinely interested.
alas i can't join your classes since commuting to them would be a drag with the atlantic ocean and the entire american continent in between us
R |
I've always been crazy but that's kept me from going insane (W.J.)
Playing: Ukulele, Slack key guitar, Mandolin |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 4:33:58 PM
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| I saw Eddie Kamae in a video on Hawaiian music. He showed examples of slack key on guitar, ukulele and 5-string banjo. Gabby said that the first slack key he heard as a kid was 2 guys playing a guitar and (gasp!) a squeeze box. Kanikapila literally means "play the fiddle". |
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hikabe
Lokahi
USA
358 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2006 : 5:08:50 PM
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| Hey Sellars. Although I fiddle and sometimes perform in slack key tuning, I don't consider myself an accomplished slack key musician and don't teach it. The concepts you are refering to can be found in any college level basic theory book. About the Atlantic and the american continent, go around the other way! Good luck... |
Stay Tuned... |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/21/2006 : 08:14:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
Kanikapila literally means "play the fiddle".
I thought it meant "play music." Kapila means "fiddle?" |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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