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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 03/27/2007 : 06:57:45 AM
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Howdy -
A freind hipped me to this handy comparioson chart for a number of the popular small recorders, including those by Zoom, Edirol, Sony and Korg.
http://www.sweetwater.com/feature/handheld_recorders/chart.php
Please note that I have no financial stake in Sweetwater Sound.
Mark
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 08:07:39 AM
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| This chart makes two things clear. First, despite its shortcomings, for sheer versatility and value it's still impossible to beat the H4. Second, there's still plenty of room for additional competition...nobody's got it perfect yet. (I'd personally love to see something with the Korg's form factor, styling, quality, and interface; the H4's inputs, built-in mics, and built-in effects; and an internal 32GB flash drive...all for around $399.) |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 03/27/2007 08:30:35 AM |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 08:49:29 AM
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quote:
for sheer versatility and value it's still impossible to beat the H4
...Not necessarily correct, as much as I hate SONY, the minidisc competes very well against the above items, and they:
1) Are smaller and lighter
(about 1/2 inch by 3 inches by 3 inches)
2) Last longer on Batteries
(32 hours play 16 hours record)
3) Have lower cost memory (minidiscs)
(about $7 per gig for the one gig discs)
4) Otherwise, have both compressed and non-compressed recording
available (same as the others), but the sony ATRAC is better
than mp3 at equivalent bit rates.
5) Don't have built in Mics, which is not a big problem.
6) Are about the same price as the H4 $300
($100 cheaper than your target price above)
(which will pay for the external mics)
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/27/2007 08:54:48 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 12:42:19 PM
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| Sorry, I should have specified that I was talking about flash-based recorders. While minidiscs have their place (for now at least) they still using moving parts for recording, they do not supply phantom power, they are limited in storage capacity (as compared to my ideal of a 32GB flash drive), and they don't have built-in mics (which I want for convenience, not cost savings). And it's only recently that the DRM restrictions have been removed to make them viable as digital recorders. (I'll overlook the fact that everything I've ever owned from Sony has broken shortly after the warranty ran out.) To me the only advantage they offer is the ability to easily archive what you've recorded. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 2:13:28 PM
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quote:
they still using moving parts for recording
Not really a problem unless you are extremely brutal with them.
quote:
they do not supply phantom power
Actually they do (but just a few volts)
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they are limited in storage capacity
Only limited by the number of 1GB discs you want to carry. 32GB flash cards are just now available at at price of $350. Equivalent storage in Minidiscs costs just $190 (and prices of BOTH are shrinking - flash will probably shrink faster).
I don't like SONY any more that you do, but all three of my Sony Minidisc recorders are still working, and the oldest is close to 10 years old (and has been out to Hawaii, Trinidad, Bonaire, etc) in the rain and heat and dust many times.
The DRM was never a problem if you recorded in Hi-Rate ATRAC (which was equivalent to 320kbit mp3). The DRM on new 1GB units (and Sony's DRM attack on windows users "i.e. the rootkit") pissed me off so much that I have quit buying Sony altogether. But you can get pretty good minidiscs units from other manufacturers, and Sony has removed the DRM restrictions on the 1GB units.
One very real problem is that Sony may quit making them sometime soon, which probably will cause the others to quit as well!
Another thing to remember about flash: it wears out: You can only write it about 100,000 times, minidiscs are re-writable essentially infinitely, just like hard drives. 100,000 writes seems like a lot until you realize how many cluster re-writes are done in many systems. Your hard drive in the computer you are reading this forum on is constantly re-writing clusters. 100,000 rewrites happens in a relatively few minutes. In the case of flash for recorders (or cameras) re-writes are less often, but I have friends who have thrown-away their 1GB flash cards (bought two years ago), because they were worn-out.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/27/2007 2:26:43 PM |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 4:30:18 PM
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I'm not at all familiar with any recording devices except the H4 that I bought the other day. Can you do 4-track recording on the minidisc?
Most of what you said is way too technical for me but like cpatch, I like the convenience of everything in one neat little package with nothing else to carry or plug in, and no moving parts.
Regarding Sony, I gave my 13-year-old grandson a Sony laptop that I bought in early 2001 and it's still going strong. I used it for work and took it with me whenever I travelled. The HP laptop that I replaced it with has been serviced twice by mail (thank God I bought the extended warranty) in its first year of use. Once they changed the CD combo drive and the other they changed the hard drive. Huge inconvenience for someone who uses their laptop for working and travelling. |
Aloha,
John A. |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 4:32:24 PM
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| By the way, Mark. Thanks for the link to the comparison chart.....I considered the Boss unit for a little bit but I'm happy I got the H4! |
Aloha,
John A. |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 4:51:00 PM
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quote:
Can you do 4-track recording on the minidisc?
Depends upon what you mean by "4 track recording". 4 Track Recording is, by definition, the ability to record 4 tracks at once None of these "flash" units that I have checked out can do 4 track recording. They can record 2 tracks and then record another 2 tracks while playing back the first two (aka very limited overdubbing). This is a "studio recorder" function, not a field recorder function. There really is not much use for overdubbing in the field. In the studio, however, overdubbing is very useful, but really only if you have the other features of some of the small DAW workstations (i.e. at least 8 simultaneous tracks, built-in effects, full editing console and ability to burn CDs, etc, etc.) If these things were TRUE 4 track recorders I would already have bought one for field use. Instead, I bought and Edirol UA101 that gives me 8 tracks in and out of my LapTop for field use.
I have a friend (a Banjo player) who was enamored with the overdub capability of the H4. He used it exactly ONCE for this purpose!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 03/27/2007 4:54:48 PM |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 7:11:04 PM
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Thanks for trying to clear this up for me Lawrence, but as I said, this is way too technical for me. I only understand about 30% of what you're saying. Let me say that the reason I bought the H4 was so I could record two or more tracks separately (say guitar, ukulele, vocals) and play them back as one song. The H4 manual says this is 4-track recording but I guess it's not?
I don't know what you'd call it but the H4 did allow me to reord guitar and ukulele separately and play them back as one song in the two test recordings I've made so far. This is the only recording experience I have so admittedly, I don't know what I'm doing. Can the minidisc do the same thing? |
Aloha,
John A. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 7:46:35 PM
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javeiro, the H4 is a 4 track recorder that allows you to record 2 tracks (two inputs) at a time. You can, for example, plug in your guitar and a mic and record yourself singing while playing guitar (2 tracks) then go back and record yourself playing ukulele and singing harmony as accompaniment to the first 2 tracks (which you listen to while recording). You'll end up with a 4-track recording (guitar, vocals, ukulele, and harmony) that you can then mix down to stereo.
Referring to something as a multi-track recorder based on the total number of tracks it can record and not the number of inputs it can record has been going on since the technology to store additional tracks internally was introduced. The H4 has four independent internal tracks and hence is a 4-track recorder by today's definition. Lawrence is correct, however, in stating that it would not be a 4-track recorder according to the original definition and this can certainly be confusing. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 03/28/2007 05:11:54 AM |
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javeiro
Lokahi
USA
459 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2007 : 11:53:01 PM
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| Mahalo, Craig. That clears it up for me. I guess it's not exactly what I thought it would be but still suitable for my purpose. |
Aloha,
John A. |
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