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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 05/26/2007 : 07:33:03 AM
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Folks - I have been listening to Uncle George's Hula #1 CD. When he sings the first verse of Henehene Kou Aka, I am hearing.....
"Ka mea ma'a mau `ia", but in other songs (Iz, Andy Cummings) I have heard "he mea ma`a mau `ia". What is the difference? Is one correct and one not?
Mahalo.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 08:29:57 AM
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| I throw my hat in the ring. Ka= the, he= is. Therefore one says: the accustomed thing while the other could mean : is the accustomed thing or sumptin li' dat. I have usually sung he mea ma'a mau 'ia. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 09:17:41 AM
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I have usually heard it as "He mea ma'amau (one word) ia". Ia means the aforementioned "it" and is used in place of "kela", keia" and "kena" when you already know what "it" is by context or previous reference.
The difference between using "ka" and "he" in this context is relatively minor, he mea ma'amau - it is A usual thing, ka mea ma'amau - it is THE usual thing. Using he sounds better to me in the overall context of the song. Usually if a sentence were to start with "ka" or "ke" you would also have 'o before them,, however, it is sometimes dropped in mele. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 11:54:16 AM
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Gentlemen: Mahalo for your insights. It does not make a huge amount of difference to the mele whichever way you choose to sing it I do believe I will sing it with "ka" because all the verses talk about doing a usual thing...therefore none of them would be THE usual thing....unlrdd....if the usual thing to do in Kaka`ako is to eat pipi stew; getting bouced/jiggled on the streetcar is the usual thing, etc. Hmmmmm.
Then again, I do believe I am over analyzing and just need to sing the mele and stop obsessing.
Once again, he mea ma`amau `ia for Keola to share his mana`o. And Al, too. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 2:31:34 PM
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Also, it is worth noting that there is a difference between 'ia (with an 'okina) and ia (without an 'okina). The word in the lyric is the latter. Not only are the two words pronounced differently, but the former, 'ia, indicates the passive voice -- making a verb passive, which doesn't apply here -- and does not mean "it".
I really enjoy Iz's version of this song. I always remember when I first heard it and it always makes me happy :-)
aloha,
Sarah
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 3:22:08 PM
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After reading my previous (and the follow-ups), I should probably clarify on the "ia" in there (as Sarah accurately points out is different than 'ia). To be more accurate than I was in my first post "ia" does not literally mean "it" in this kind of situation. If functions as a determiner, like ka, ke, kela, keia, kena and others. It is a case where Hawaiian will drop some words. In this song, it is referring to the actions occuring in the first two lines of each verse. For example:
Henehene kou 'aka
Kou le'ale'a paha
He mea ma'amau ia ()
For you and I
Where I put the parenthesis you sometimes will find another word. In the case of the above third line, I might perhaps use "hana" - work or action. He mea ma'amau ia hana - it is a usual thing that we do. Again, one of the beauties of the language is that you can leave these kinds of things off as understood, and from the context of the previous two lines you can tell what is begin spoken of in the line. In the Na Kai 'Ewalu textbook our college uses, this is also referred to as a dropped "mea" - thing. He mea ma'amau ia (mea) - It is a usual thing. So depending on the context, a composer would have three choices:
He mea ma'amau ia hana
He mea ma'amau ia mea
He mea ma'amau ia ()
The final is the most poetic to my ears, though if a melody were require the line to be more verbose, the first two would also work.
Hope this helps clarify.
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Edited by - keoladonaghy on 05/27/2007 3:40:37 PM |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 3:31:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
Gentlemen: Mahalo for your insights. It does not make a huge amount of difference to the mele whichever way you choose to sing it I do believe I will sing it with "ka" because all the verses talk about doing a usual thing...therefore none of them would be THE usual thing....unlrdd....if the usual thing to do in Kaka`ako is to eat pipi stew; getting bouced/jiggled on the streetcar is the usual thing, etc. Hmmmmm.
Then again, I do believe I am over analyzing and just need to sing the mele and stop obsessing.
Once again, he mea ma`amau `ia for Keola to share his mana`o. And Al, too.
I don't think your over-analyzing or obsessing. These kinds of subtleties are important.
To sing "'o ka mea ma'amau ia" suggests that this is THE regular thing that we do, implying to me, THE most common thing that you do. He mea ma'amau ia, it is something that we regularly do, but not necessarily THE most common thing that we do. Important distinction, and the kind of detail that haku mele will give much thought to. |
Edited by - keoladonaghy on 05/27/2007 3:32:24 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2007 : 9:19:42 PM
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| My bad. there is no 'okina in front of ia. I remember a w slide between mau and ia. I haven't sung this song in a while so I put an 'okina in by mistake. What Keola says is on the money. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 03:33:15 AM
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Aloha, Wanda,
I, for one, appreciate your concern with singing lyrics that make sense and with the right pronunciation. It's great that you are inquiring before the fact. Now you can feel confident about what you are singing, with no worries about perpetuating a misconstruction.
aloha,
Sarah |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/28/2007 : 09:41:41 AM
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Ka: the (singular)
He: a/an |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
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