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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 05/29/2007 : 4:39:29 PM
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How does one say in Hawaiian those words in English that end in "ing"....listening...laughing....seeing....watching....speaking....playing...etc. When I use the dictionary at wehewehe.org, it says no entries found. Do I just make them ho`o--- words? I really do not understand the verb tense thing as it relates to Hawaiian. Same same for pronouns and such. Things like us -- it appears to be different for two of us exclusively as opposed to us in the more global sense... or we in the royal sense (we are not amused).
Also -- when to use ho`olono vs. ho`olohe?
Mahalo.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 05/29/2007 4:41:45 PM |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2007 : 7:04:15 PM
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Aloha Wanda. It is not simply a matter of adding a suffix like -ing, as there are a couple of ways this is used in English. This is really a deep topic and this is probably not the best place to go into all of the subtleties. One of the problem is the inaccurate use of some grammatical and linguistic terms to describe Hawaiian, something dealt with in the Na Kai 'Ewalu text by using Hawaiian terms.
There are words in Hawaiian that are called "tense markers" but in reality that term is not really accurate. The word "ua" is frequently said to mark past tense, but what it really marks is a completed action, and in the case of adjectives and adverbs (more problematic terms) of reaching a particular state or condition. "e verb ana" is frequently said to mark future action, but it can also be used to describe past, present or future actions. Here is a list to give you an idea how difficult this is without turning it into a chapter (or five):
Ua 'ai au. I ate. I have completed the act of eating
E 'ai ana au. I was eating.
Ke 'ai nei au. I am eating (right now)
E 'ai ana au. I am eating (I have been eating, amd eating now and will continue to eat).
E 'ai ana au. I will eat. I will be eating.
The only way to tell which e - verb - ana a sentence is by context.
Another -ing is a verbal noun, also known as a gerund. It follows this pattern:
determiner - verb - 'ana
Ka 'ai 'ana i ka poi - the eating (of) the poi. This one is problematic to translate, and people sometimes want to use "o" in there to match the English translation. However, ka 'ai 'ana o ka poi would mean "the poi's eating of something". If you use "o" or "a" then you are referring to the person or thing performing that action. Where I have put "ka" you could put a number of other determiners.
Keia noho 'ana o makou - our sitting ("this sitting of us").
Ke oli 'ana a ke keiki - the chanting of the child.
Kä kakou inu 'ana i ka pia - our drinking the beer.
Kona noho 'ana ma Hilo - his/her living in Hilo.
So in summary, you need to understand what the thought is that you are trying to express.
Adding of ho'o- is a whole other issue, perhaps for another post. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 12:53:35 AM
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Oh like Henehene Kou Aka .. `ai `ana i ka pipi stew...
Too bad I don't live Big Island. I would come to your school. I would even bring an apple for the teacher.
Mahalo so very much for your help, Keola. You are a treasure. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 05:03:54 AM
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Aloha, Wanda,
One way to remember whether it should be i or o/a following the (gerundizing) 'ana, is to remember that in this context i indicates a direct or indirect object of the action (such as poi or pipi stew), not the agent. The a/o would apply (as Keola explained) if the agent of the action follows the 'ana: in a sense, the agent is "owner" of the action.
The Na Kai 'Ewalu texts that Keola refers to are very good, and very helpful also in explaining Hawaiian construction from a Hawaiian thinking point of view. They are a bargain at $5.00 each: http://www.olelo.hawaii.edu/khuok/hknke.php
From what I can tell, in Henehene Kou 'Aka, it is `ai ana, not `ai `ana. Keola can help out here, but my interpretation is that the ana in the Henehene Kou 'Aka song is actually part of the "e ... ana" set of verb markers he mentioned, with the "e" dropped. That, or another ana, which indicates a "one time or future action" (my quotes), but that doesn't seem to quite fit with the notion that these activities are "usual" and thus frequent, both past and future.
"Things like us -- it appears to be different for two of us exclusively as opposed to us in the more global sense... or we in the royal sense (we are not amused)."
Your observation is correct. Hawaiian has singular, dual, and plural pronouns.
I....................... au
you................... 'oe
he/she/it............ 'o ia
we (just you and I)............................... käua
we (the two of us and not you)............... mäua
you (the two of you and not me/us)........ 'olua
them (the two of them and not me/us)..... läua
we (the three or more of us)................................ käkou
we (the three or more of us and not you)............... mäkou
you (the three or more of you and not me/us)........ 'oukou
them (the three or more of them and not me/us)..... läkou
aloha,
Sarah |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 05:26:37 AM
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Sarah - Mahalo. I need to print out your & Keola's postings and keep them with me...and put another copy in with my dictionary. What you and Keola are telling me is much more helpful than just blindly reading the dictionary, which I do on a frequent basis. God bless Kawena Pukui.
Sarah - too bad I don't live Connecticut...and too bad you don't teach Hawaiian at a school, else I would come to your school and bring you an apple, too.
I Want To Learn To Speak Hawaiian - Words & music by Johnny Noble
I want to learn to speak Hawaiian
Then I can say the sweetest things to you
I want to learn to sing Hawaiian
So I can do the hula hula too
I've learned to say aloha nui `oe
The sweetest little words I ever knew
And when I am a kama`äina
Its going to thrill me thru and thru
Chorus:
Honi käua wikiwiki
They taught me on the beach at Waikiki
Wela ka hao meaning whoop-ee
I am learning them fast you can see
So after all what does it matter
If I should stutter on a word or two
I want to learn to speak Hawaiian
Cause I'm pupule, simply crazy over you |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 05/30/2007 05:32:17 AM |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 07:45:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarah
From what I can tell, in Henehene Kou 'Aka, it is `ai ana, not `ai `ana. Keola can help out here, but my interpretation is that the ana in the Henehene Kou 'Aka song is actually part of the "e ... ana" set of verb markers he mentioned, with the "e" dropped. That, or another ana, which indicates a "one time or future action" (my quotes), but that doesn't seem to quite fit with the notion that these activities are "usual" and thus frequent, both past and future.
Yes, I agree.
I Kaka'ako mäkou (e) 'ai ana i ka pipi stew.
If you see a verb - ana grouping like this with nothing in front I would think it would most likely be the situation Sarah describes. I don't know if I've ever seen the determiner - verb - 'ana pattern without anything in front of it.
Another good clue as to which of the ana a line has is to see if there is any directional (mai, iho, aku, a'e) in there. If there is note its location. If it comes before ana, then it is the e - ana variety.
Hä'ina 'ia mai ana, for example. Not 'ana.
If the directional comes after ana, then it is actually 'ana...
Ko mali leo 'ana mai. I ke ao 'ana a'e.
The Henehene Kou 'Aka example there is no directional to help, but in many songs there is this kind of clue.
KD
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Edited by - keoladonaghy on 05/30/2007 07:49:05 AM |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 08:31:32 AM
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I'd like to add one closing thought on this song. I looked at the lyrics and translation provided at Huapala, and I have a slightly different take on the song, at least the verses that describe going to various places, like Kaka'ako, Waikïkï and Kapahulu. The translation there makes it sounds as though you are about to go to these places. I think all of these are reminisces of a past act, not present as the translation there suggests.
I Kaka'ako mäkou We were at Kaka'ako (or "We went to Kaka'ako")
(E) 'ai ana i ka pipi stew Eating beef stew
In spoken Hawaiian there are two different ways of phrasing this kind of thought, with a distinct difference:
I Kaka'ako makou e 'ai ana i ka pipi stew - We were at Kaka'ako eating beef stew
I Kaka'ako ana makou e 'ai ai i ka pipi stew - We are going to Kaka'ako to eat beef stew.
The placement of "ana" is important, and distinguishes past and future use of "e - ana" in this particular structure. Now, it is possible that this is just a bit of poetic license with the translation given, but I believe that in the context of this mele, in which the composer seems to be reminiscing about these joyful time, describing this as a past ongoing act better reflects the mood of the song. But that's just my opinion ;-)
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2007 : 09:18:26 AM
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Maybe Mark Nelson or his friends in the Beamer `Ohana may have more insight on this mele. I had read somewhere that this mele was written for Helen Desha Beamer, by he who subsequently became her husband. The story I heard was that she was with a group of high school friends riding the trolley and was embarassed and uncomfortably shy about being bounced and jiggled around that she wanted to get off and go home. The fella reminded her that she wanted to get some notoriously famous good pipi stew, and kept making up usual things that foklks would do when traveling by streetcar. I do not remember where I read it, but I can do more research. Another story I heard is that it is a song that folks over time just kept adding more and more verses...adding ones that were particular to their own personal experiences.
I agree with what Keola says that they seem to be reminisces...otherwise how could they be the usual thing for you and I? I just love that song. I sing it frequently. It ws probably the first song I learned all the way through in Hawaiian. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 05/30/2007 09:18:49 AM |
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alika207
Ha`aha`a
USA
1260 Posts |
Posted - 05/31/2007 : 3:29:25 PM
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Past tense: ua + verb + subject
Present Tense: Ke + verb + nei + subject
Future Tense: E + verb + ana + subject
Examples:
Ua hele au i kou hale i keia la. I went to your house today.
Ke 'ike nei 'o Kamalani i na hoku. Kamalani is seeing the stars.
E 'olelo ana 'o ia. He will speak.
Sorry about the kahako not showing up. |
He kehau ho'oma'ema'e ke aloha.
'Alika / Polinahe |
Edited by - alika207 on 05/31/2007 3:30:31 PM |
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