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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2007 : 3:21:04 PM
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In all my various readings trying to learn about the sovereignty movement, to learn about and understand Hawaiian culture and ways, I've stumbled upon a fair amount of writings by Uncle Charlie Maxwell of Maui. Is he thought of as a kahuna by the kama`aina? I see him in the forefront and highly visible in a number of venues...sovereignty; cleaning up the water (didn't his daughter die from falling in the nasty water - that flesh eating bacteria? I think also he had a big part to play in the building and care of the Maui Ocean Center shark exhibit. I think I read somewhere that his family aumakua is mano.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 06/12/2007 12:30:10 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 07:20:28 AM
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I don't know how locals view Uncle Charlie, but I heard him on the radio a few years ago and he seemed very strident about Hawaiian issues. He didn't seem as angry about outsider as some of the locals I saw on public access cable, though.
I don't think anyone would call him 'kahuna' since the word is generally reserved for priests of the ancient religion.
Jesse Tinsley
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 3:07:50 PM
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I know Uncle Charlie personally. He is of the same `ohana as Uncle Sol, but lives upcountry. Please don't get into any discussion of what you think is right or wrong about what he does or did. I am pretty tired of this TP.net-wide remote BS about which so many of you know nothing.
...Reid |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 5:39:04 PM
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You could tell us, Reid, rather than telling us we know nothing:)
Jesse |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 6:44:52 PM
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One thing I do know, Reid. You are extremely rude. I try to be polite and patient and open to many points of view. Hatefullness, however, is one point of view I cannot tolerate. I normally try to be the peace-maker. Remember what our moms taught us ..."if you can't say something nice..."
I do not see anything in the two previous posts on this topic that is inflammatory and would incite such a reaction from you. If there is something we need to be educated on, then educate us; however, do NOT keep pretending that you are the only one who knows anything. Social graces are topics on which you may wish to be educated. If something wrankled you, then all you need to do is point that out and say this came across to me as such and such and here is my take on the topic. Is it easier to be hateful? Just because YOU personally know someone means nothing.
I apologize to the rest of you for venting. There are times, however, when something needs to be said.
Now that all that has been said, here is Uncle Charlie Maxwell's web site, full of quite interesting and informative information and opinion.
http://www.moolelo.com/ |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2007 : 8:24:43 PM
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| Charles Maxwell is well respected in the community as an Hawaiian activist. He has fought hard and long for Hawaiian rights. I don't agree with everything he stands for but I do respect him too. However I want to point out that and I said it before, there are many groups that are politically active they run the gamut ffrom communist to royalist and everything in between. If people get a little huhu they could present themslves constructively or keep their opinions to themselves. Like people could explain to everyone elsewhat is meant by "many of you know nothing". I personally do not reveal all my experience and education and background growing up in Hawai'i because I wish to be ha'aha'a and approach everything from a sharing standpoint Wanda, you do ask alot of questions and I guess you are interested and want to learn. But somethings are not meant for exposure and discussion on this forum. Feathers get ruffled and in Hawaiian tradition we Ho'olohe me ka pepeiao, a pane ka waha. Mai ninau 'oe i kela me keia wa. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 12:22:53 AM
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Al - thank you my friend for calling me to task. You are correct, some things are not meant for this forum and I have raised topics that have absolutely nothing to do with slack key guitar, `ukulele, steel guitar or bass or the other forum topics. I apologize.
I firmly believe that some of the topics I have raised on this forum have promoted wonderful discourse. Some topics have definitely caused a little huhu, but with a VERY SMALL exception, everyone who comments here has been very respectful of others' opinions and honest and speaking from the heart in sharing their opinions. I am grateful for that. And I am grateful for the education I am getting, whether it makes me happy and feel good, or whether it makes me uncomfortable.
I just don't like rudeness. Ask my daughters. My slogan as they were growing up was "Help stamp out Rude". I do feel many times that direct confrontation is rude, but sometimes you gotta say what you gotta say. Which I did and now I'm pau.
Wanda |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
Edited by - wcerto on 06/13/2007 04:27:37 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 03:56:27 AM
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This will be my last word on the general subject, for which I am sure you will be eternally grateful.
These are political issues that do, or can, or might, affect the lives of people *locally*. As a mere visitor to Maui, I do not know what those affects are, or will, or might be. In the time I am there, I can only get the most miniscule glimpse of the situation on the ground. I do not walk in their shoes. I do not have direct knowledge. Any comment of mine, or opinion, would be baseless, ignorant pontificating - to answer your question, Jesse. I am not entitled to an opinion.
I do have opinions and take actions on political issues in my own town and state. I know how they affect me and those around me. I see their affects every day. In fact, I am obligated as a citizen, to do so.
To do so at a 5000 mile remove, for another culture, and only on the basis of what is printed on the web or in a newspaper, would be presumptuous in the extreme.
Should I have an opinion on the political debate in France about terms of employment? What would a citizen of France think of it if I did?
...Reid
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Edited by - Reid on 06/13/2007 03:57:17 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 04:22:49 AM
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Although some of Wanda's questions seem maha oi (nosy), I don't believe she was asking for a value judgement about a respected kupuna or an opinion about sovreignty politics, just a little more information to help her understand the situation over there.
Discussing sovreignty issues, like talking politics at the dinner table, can lead to hurt feelings and unintended putdowns.
We like to keep thing pono here, but we at Taropatch are mostly mainlanders who, as Reid pointedly pointed out, can be like the blind leading the blind. Mainlanders are also more plain spoken than Hawaiians, who often opt to say nothing about controversial topics.
Jesse Tinsley
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Edited by - hapakid on 06/13/2007 04:32:12 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 09:13:46 AM
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I am not wise enough to keep from posting on this subject.
Wanda: In your quest to learn about Hawaii and Hawaiian causes, I wonder if you realize that helpfull outsiders are not always appreciated. You seem so enamured with most things Hawaiin but Hawaii is not as glamorous as you think it is, in my opinion.
If you lived in Hawaii for a few years you would probably find that your education and desire to help would not elevate you to a position of respect by many of the locals that do not like haoles.
I think Hawaiian issues are for the Hawaiian people and I also think they have the same opinion.
Also, when a person knows MORE than the affected native people, they sometimes resent it MORE.
This is a place where you can inquire about these issues but
it is not the perfect place. Most here want to talk music and not politics or other issues.These subjects tend to open a venue for venting anger and bad feelings.
However, I think you are a valuable contributor and I undestand your dillema.
side note: forgive my spelling, I am lost without a spell checker :)
My best to you |
Bob |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 11:50:33 AM
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Bob - points well made. Yes, I am enamored of Hawai`i, but I also know it is not Nirvana. I am a pretty good realist. I guess the easiest thing to do if I post something that is not pono or that I have no business asking, is just to tell me (in a polite manner such as most of you do). Or don't answer me -- I'll take the hint.
I really enjoyed asking questions and reading the opinions and information that you guys share. This is one of the few outlets I have found where 1) many people seem to have the same insterests as I do -- both Hawaiian music and culture. No one around here to talk to about these topics except Paul. Not that he is bad to talk to, but I like hearing other points of view, because Paul and I seem to think alike (and you know what they say about old married couples starting to resemble each other -- I have to shave my chin more than he does) 2)many people have the same values I do -- you are kind, thoughtful, respectful and helpful. You have good hearts. Thank you for that.
PS: re: education....I have none. I just read and read and read. Not a college grad -- only one year Kent State, flunked out, partied too hard back in 70-71 (boy was I dumb)- went that fall after the shootings. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 3:42:26 PM
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| Wanda, I am more than willing to discuss things with you via private email. That way we won't offend anyone or be interrupted by huhu folks. My qualifications to discuss anything can be revealed privately since I don't want to sound like a braggart or seem like I am talking down to anyone. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 4:12:59 PM
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| Thanks for all the discussion. I found it to be interesting reading. And thank you to the peacekeepers here. |
Andy |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 6:05:59 PM
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Wanda, I too wanted to learn all I could about the Hawaiian culture...but while living on the mainland was fortunate to have older Hawaiian friends who guided me. They didn't TEACH me, so much as they guided me...to books (such as "Nana I Ke Kumu Vol 1 & 2" by Mary Kawena Pukui) and "The Polynesian Family System in Ka`u Hawai`i" ) from which I could learn at my own pace. These are widely available (check amazon.com, too).
The best thing I learned from my friends though, was that to ask questions, was to be maha`oi (nosey). Just as is said about how to learn Hawaiian music:
Pa`a ka waha, nana ka maka; hana ka lima.
Shut the mouth; observe with the eyes; work with the hands.
(One learns by listening, observing and doing.) |
Auntie Maria
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 06/13/2007 : 8:44:11 PM
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| "a'ole loa! Maha 'oi = rude, overbearing. Ni'ele = nosy, asking questions incessantly. E 'olu'olu, e hana 'oukou apau i ka 'olelo Hawai'i me ka pololei! |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
Edited by - noeau on 06/13/2007 8:45:04 PM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2007 : 03:33:38 AM
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Al - what are you saying above, please. From sitting with my dictionary, I THINK it says
A`ole loa =Certainly not!
E `olu`olu , e hana `oukou apau i ka `olelo Hawai`i me ka pololei! -- It is nice if your entire task of Hawaiian language is correct.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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