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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
 Posted - 07/31/2007 : 07:45:48 AM
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In the on-going saga about collecting royalties and mechanical licensing fees, the RIAA stomps its feet about YouTube:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11778602
I post this in light of a concurrent taropatch.net thread on the demise of podcasts and the recent spate of taropatch.net postings about interesting musical musings at YouTube. Enjoy those while they last, folks. If the RIAA has anything to say about it, a home video of somebody's slack key rendering of "Green Rose Hula" may soon be extinct.
The article cited above only speaks to the most recent RIAA/YouTube tussle. Do a Google search on "YouTube and RIAA" for many, many, many more articles on the subject.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:12:55 AM
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The RIAA isn't even mentioned in this particular article. It says "a music company accused him of copyright infringement for an instructional video on how to play a Rolling Stones song." It could be either the publisher of the song or ASCAP/BMI/SEASAC.
AFAIK Green Rose Hula is still under copyright, so potentially, yes, someone could make you take down a video performance of it. Who knows what criteria YouTube is using. If I emailed them and said I owned the copyright to Green Rose Hula, they might compel someone to take down a video performance posted there without even requiring me to provide proof of copyright ownership. That's spooky. |
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keoladonaghy
Lokahi
257 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:20:12 AM
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BTW, if anyone has a few days to kill and is really interested in the subject of copyright and "traditional" music, you might want to download and read Dr. Anthony McCann's Ph.d. disseration available from this site:
http://www.beyondthecommons.com/beyondthecommons.html
It talks about how the Irish version of ASCAP/BMI consolidated power and compelled public venues to pay royalties for live song performances, including songs that had been widely considered to be traditional, even though composers were still living. |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 08:52:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
The RIAA isn't even mentioned in this particular article. It says "a music company accused him of copyright infringement for an instructional video on how to play a Rolling Stones song." It could be either the publisher of the song or ASCAP/BMI/SEASAC.
Yikes! You're right! I goofed! I linked to a different article than the one I first spotted because the second article had much mre detail. Now that you have pointed it out, I returned to the first article (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/07/0330209) and realized that although the headline mentions RIAA, the article does not.
So much for responsible reporting on my part. Kala mai and thanks for the correction. |
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:32:01 AM
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Based on the letter of the law and what we've discussed here, there is a lot of casual infringement going on in Hawaiian music, mostly on the lowest level, that is, Youtube postings and amateur recordings of songs to which some company still owns rights.
But I haven't heard too many legal tangles about these many minor infringements, so I wonder if it's a generalization to say that little action has been taken to correct these situations because Hawaiian music isn't a big moneymaker (for anyone) and the lawyers aren't spending much time with that part of the catalog, or perhaps the legal rights to most Hawaiian songs are unknown or murky. Are living copyright holders, like Rev. Dennis, willing to let these little infringements slide? Or are composers doing a slow burn whenever a Hawaiian group sings their song at a luau?
I'm curious because as an amateur musician, I'm guilty of strumming a so-called traditional song into my recorder and then posting it, vaguely cognizant that I might be infringing on something, somewhere.
Jesse Tinsley
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 10:48:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by keoladonaghy
"a music company accused him of copyright infringement for an instructional video on how to play a Rolling Stones song."
There's his big mistake. Allen Klein's ABKCO holds extremely tight rein on much of the Rolling Stones catalogue - song publishing to recording rights - and he's a bulldog when it comes to enforcement; that's who likely went after him. |
Edited by - Retro on 07/31/2007 1:33:18 PM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 12:11:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hapakid
Based on the letter of the law and what we've discussed here, there is a lot of casual infringement going on in Hawaiian music, mostly on the lowest level, that is, Youtube postings and amateur recordings of songs to which some company still owns rights.
But I haven't heard too many legal tangles about these many minor infringements, so I wonder if it's a generalization to say that little action has been taken to correct these situations because Hawaiian music isn't a big moneymaker (for anyone) and the lawyers aren't spending much time with that part of the catalog, or perhaps the legal rights to most Hawaiian songs are unknown or murky. Are living copyright holders, like Rev. Dennis, willing to let these little infringements slide? Or are composers doing a slow burn whenever a Hawaiian group sings their song at a luau?
I'm curious because as an amateur musician, I'm guilty of strumming a so-called traditional song into my recorder and then posting it, vaguely cognizant that I might be infringing on something, somewhere.
Jesse Tinsley
I think that some composers would let it go. But I think the answer would be situational. On the one hand, Hawaiian composers would be among the most underpaid in the world because their compositions receive so little play. (Talk about a "niche market." What percentage of Hawaiian music CDs are sold outside of Hawai`i? What percentage of radio play do Hawaiian compositions receive outside of Hawai`i-based radio? Hmmm...) On the other hand, many Hawaiian compositions - especially those of a bygone era - were not born of capitalism but of an oral tradition. Hawaiian music historian Jean Sullivan described this phenomenon quite eloquently:
Finding out about most Hawaiian songs is a challenge to the talents of a Sherlock Holmes...Take even a song popular for many years, known and sung by almost everyone: Only a few may know for sure who composed it, and when, and why... A song composed as a compliment became the property of the person it honored and the composer couteously remained anonymous... And human nature being what it is, many claim the compositions of others as their own...Many of these [songs] are well-known to everyone...except the Registrar of Copyrights in the Library of Congress... And, simply, the composers and others concerned may feel it's nobody else's business...especially if the song was made as a love letter, to call someone a scold, a pest, or a flirt, to win back a straying spouse, or for some other private purpose.
So, really, whether or not the haku mele chooses to enforce copyright is a matter of their personal values: whether they are more concerned with tradition or with the "business" of music. As a musician myself, I don't think the two positions are mutually exclusive, either. I might allow any number of infringements of my work to go unchallenged. But if my music were used in connection with a cause or product I do not believe in, I would probably step up and defend my work.
Hawaiian culture is different from some, I suppose. It is tradition that if you have talent to give, you give it freely (and by "freely" I mean literally and figuratively). So, if you are a musician, you are pretty much expected to perform at baby's Christening lu`au and auntie's 75th birthday party - both monumentous events, and so the musician should feel honored. But if that musician is trying to make a living playing their music, the expectation that every performance will be gratis may simply be too great a financial burden. Even those in the category of "professional" - those we consider "legends" - make surprisingly little performing live around Waikiki. It is a very, very sad situation that there are so few professional musicians in Hawai`i who make ends meet solely through their music, and at the same time, it is a situation born of long-standing tradition.
The question is will ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, or RIAA let such infringements go? After all, it is their responsibility to give due diligence to collecting such fees. It's their job, and given the way the financial pie of the music biz is sliced up, these organizations have as much to lose - or more - than the artists themselves if they don't protect their work.
A very sticky situation, indeed...
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 12:36:54 PM
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I can't quite accept the arguement in the article about "people who can't afford lessons" needing free lessons from web sites. I have used some free resources myself, posted by various guitar/banjo/dulcimer players on their own web sites. But there are so many affordable Book&DVD sets out there, a lot can be accomplished without a live teacher. There are programs in some poor areas to get lessons and instruments to kids who couldn't afford them otherwise.It seems that lessons & teaching materials are one of the fwe ways a musician can make some money without a record company eating most of it up.(Do publishers do that, too?)
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 1:35:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rendesvous1840
...without a record company eating most of it up.(Do publishers do that, too?)
Yes, which is why more and more songwriters now control their own publishing. It's a few more pennies in their pockets, but they gotta do the paperwork that goes with it. |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 1:38:22 PM
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You can only teach so much if the song is Twinkle twinkle Little Star. But when you post on you tube as an amateur and you play a so called cover and it usually doesn't qualify as one when you make your own arrangement. Some slack (no pun intended) must be given. Most of the postings are not for commercial purposes. And if they are advertising someone's CD the mechanicals were probably paid already.
It really irks me that some entity like Harry Fox who doesn't really own the copy rights to individual songs but has the rights to recorded CD raise hell when we play a song by Gabby or any other artist. And no one seems to come up with a clear answer about the entire issue. And because of that we can't even self produce our own recording without stepping on someone's toes. I have nothing against recording artists rights or composer's rights as well. Every one should get credit for their work. But why should I have to pay Michael Jackson if I want to record a song by the Beatles? We are not ripping off anyone if we play a beautiful song written by someone else. RIAA deals with recorded work and if we do a cover why should they get bent as long as we credit the writer? It is only serving to promote the song and that might generate more sales of the original recording.
Maybe I am incorrect but I don't feel like I am getting rich of of someone else's work And you know what? If it was easier to pay for licenses to play someone else's work I would gladly do it.
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No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 2:00:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by noeau
It really irks me that some entity like Harry Fox who doesn't really own the copy rights to individual songs but has the rights to recorded CD raise hell when we play a song by Gabby or any other artist.
Not only that, but HFA has accepted payment for royalties for YEARS for songs they didn't control. When my former employer was threatened with a lawsuit (by a representative of publishing groups) for non-payment, they discovered this - and HFA returned tens of thousands of dollars, with an "oops - sorry!"
You summed it up perfectly, Al, when you said: "no one seems to come up with a clear answer about the entire issue." It keeps a lot of attorneys busy. Intellectual proprty and copyright regulation always lags behind technology, and the artist is often the last to benefit. |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2007 : 2:07:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by noeau
Maybe I am incorrect but I don't feel like I am getting rich of of someone else's work And you know what? If it was easier to pay for licenses to play someone else's work I would gladly do it.
Well, you hit on the essence of the problem, I think. While it doesn't seem worth the effort to us, ASCAP and BMI are out there chasing down pennies per song played because it takes a hell of a lot of pennies to justify their existence while supporting the lifestyles to which some musicians have become accustomed.
Please, Hammer, don't bankrupt `em.
It is refreshingly unexpected to hear an artist like Stevie Wonder say that he is not against free downloading of his music because the process is introducing a new generation of fans to his music that they might never have heard - and, therefore, probably would not have paid for - under other circumstances. |
Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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