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Dallas
Aloha
3 Posts |
 Posted - 12/17/2007 : 2:54:33 PM
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Hi Everyone,
My name is Dallas (male) and I just want to say that I enjoy your site and have always loved Hawaiian guitar. I am from Australia and have played mostly blues based rock in the past. In the last couple of years have gotten into electric lap steel which I love and started to use dgdgbd tuning having read on your site that it is one of the most popular.
I find that slack g is great for bluesy dobro type playing (dgdg) and with the b string it is also good for country / pretty licks etc.
My problem is, upon visiting the steel guitar country/blues forums noone seems to use slack g. They use c6 or d6 tuning etc. They never mention taropatch slack g at all. So thats why I have joined this forum to see if anyone uses it for blues.
I have two 6 string lap steels and have recently acquired a 60's 8 string Guya which sounds great but what tuning do I use now?
I have been trying D G D G B D D Bb. The Bb so I can play minor chords easily without slanting the bar.
Any taropatch blues players out there? Some help would be very much appreciated.
Thanking you
Dallas
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 09:47:17 AM
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Hi Dallas, and welcome to the 'patch.
The "slack key" tuning you are using is the original tuning for steel guitar-- though in the old method books you'll see it more often tuned up to A.
Steel players quickly started adding notes to get more out of the tuning. If you swap strings and crank up the lower three strings to another G triad (GBD) you have the standard dobro tuning still used by just about every one. That one's called "High G" tuning sometimes.
But some guys, notable KonaBob on Hawai`i and Ken Emerson on Kauai, play in taropatch. Bob's an active guy here in cyberspace (and in real life) so I expect he'll chime in soon.
OK, as to blues: The low G/TaroPatch tuning is a standard blues tuning for bottle neck stuff. So it naturally it works for blues on steel. After a fashion-- as you've seen, you have to come up with some wicked slants. But most of the bottle neck players who play in this tuning also fret some notes, which of course you can't do on the steel.
You might want to look into D major tuning (D-A-D-F#-A-D) on one of your six strings. It is another standard bottleneck blues guitar tuning (used extensively by Elmore James) and lends itself well to bluesy steel. Ben Harper uses this tuning a lot (according to his brother, who gave me a great free lesson one day). I prefer it to G for blues as well; the tonic on top gives you more options. Don't know if this is the correct tuning, but it's the one I play "Steel Guitar Blues" in.
I leave it to better players to discuss that 8 string.
Take it EZ and good luck.
Mark |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 09:55:35 AM
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| In the beginning, before electric instruments appeared, steel guitarists DID use Taro Patch tuning, and players who emulate those early styles still do. The 6th tunings showed up in the 30's. They are much more versatile, IMHO, for their role in more modern (30's on) music. With open G tunings, minor chords and diminished chords can only be suggested at by plying 2 strings. The C13 I use (from bottom to top Bb E G A C E - add a C between Bb & E and a G on top for an 8 string) contains 3 note major chords (E G C) minor chords (E A C) 7th chords (Bb G C) and diminished chords (Bb G E) - very useful. Also, the IIm chord is at the same fret as the IV chord, and the IIIm chord is at the same fret as the V chord. On the 8 string, I can get 4 note chords as well. This tuning is the foundation for the pedal steel C6 tuning. Of course, I use bar slants as well to get inversions of chords - the object is to have "smooth" transitions from chord to chord. Basil Henriques has some info on another thread on this page and is very knowledgable about the older styles. Oh - another difference is that most steel players use a round (cylindrical) steel rather than the Stephens steel favored by bluegrassers, who do a lot of hammer-ons and bouncing from string to string (no criticism intended - it's just different). |
keaka |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 10:09:38 AM
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| Bob Brozman has a series (3) of DVDs that teaches bottle neck blues in open G. Somewhat of a stretch (no pun intended) for lap steel I imagine. I concur with Mark, check out Open D and anything by Elmore James, Duane Allman and my favorite, Roy Rogers (the slide player, not the cowboy). Roy also has a DVD for bottleneck. |
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Dallas
Aloha
3 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 4:26:46 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys (Mark, Slipry1 & Chunky Monkey)
Mark,
Thanks for your help with the 'High G' and 'D major' tunings. I like Elmore but didn't know which tuning he used. Also I like Ben Harper's sound so I might give the D tuning a go. It sounds like you had a good free lesson from his brother. Ben lives from time to time on the east coast of Australia at Byron Bay which is a beautiful area. He appears often at the East Coast Blues & Roots Festival there. Thanks Mark
Slipry1,
Thanks for the c13 info and I will try the 8 string version as you suggested. You say this makes up the foundation of the c6 tuning. I have one 1 of my 6 strings tuned to C6 but it definitely has a certain sound which suits country swing. Thats not a bad thing but I prefer the bluesy sound. I'm sure you know what I mean about the sound. You mentioned 'smooth transitions' between chords. That's what its all about. I'm getting better but have a long way to go. You also mentioned in open G you can only get a 2 note minor chord. That's why I tried D-G-D-G-B-D-D-Bb which allows me to play the root/bass note of the minor chord. You just can't play all the strings at once because it sounds like cr#p. I use a 'lap dawg' steel. I find it easier to handle than the cylindrical type.
I find the bluegrass bouncing from string to string sounds a bit weird on the lap although I do hammer-ons. Thanks again Slipry
Chunky Monkey,
I'll check out Bob Brozman's DVD's and as I told Mark I'll check out open D. I'll try to look at Roy Roger's (not the cowboy) DVD as well. Thanks again
You all sound like nice guys and I appreciate the response
Dallas |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 06:29:28 AM
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Dallas,
There isn't much that someone on this board doesn't know a lot about from obscure music to beer and brewing. |
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 12:46:51 PM
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Dallas, you say you played blues based rock, so presumably you're au fait with the regular guitar positions, and if I said the third fret you'd relate that to G with the associated chords of C and D7, right ?
If so then you should consider the E13th for the Guyatone 8 string.. the tuning relates directly to the pockets and positions that you've played for years. WHY relearn ?
From top to bottom (The correct way, always was) E - C# - B - G# - E - D - B - E
Gauges for 26" Scale (Go .004" heavier for 22.5" scale length)
E13th
1= E .013
2= C#.015
3= B .017
4= G#.022 PLAIN
5= E .032 WOUND
6= D .040
7= B .046
8= E .054
B11th
1= E .013
2= C#.015
3= A .019
4= F#.022 PLAIN OR 24 WOUND
5= D#.032 WOUND
6= B .038
7= A .048
8= B .068
Gauges I use on various guitars :-
BASIL 23" Fender 1000, for the Fender PS-210 (Keyless) add .002" to all gauges
A7th neck
1= .015
2= .017
3= .018
4= .022 PLAIN
5= .036 WOUND
6= .042
7= .048
8= .054
B11th neck
1= .015
2= .017
3= .019
4= .022
5= .032
6= .038
7= .048
8= .068
These are other gauges I use for 22.5" Scale
D13th
1= D.016 OR .017
2= B.018 0R .020
3= A.020 OR .022
4= F#.024 PLAIN OR .026 WOUND
5= D.034 WOUND
6= C.038 WOUND
7= A.042 WOUND
8= D.068 WOUND OR .070 WOUND |
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 12:55:52 PM
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Jack, I JUST had to post that info after your remark quote:
Basil Henriques has some info on another thread on this page and is very knowledgeable about the older styles.
OLDER STYLES, what are you inferring, I know that my birthday was a couple of weeks ago but I really don't FEEL any older..Now YOU are a different "Kettle of Fish" altogether..I see the guitar in your avatar, but WHERE have you put the "Walker" (Zimmerframe) |
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Edited by - Basil Henriques on 12/20/2007 12:56:20 PM |
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Dallas
Aloha
3 Posts |
Posted - 12/20/2007 : 9:10:18 PM
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Basil,
Thanks for your reply. I'll just let you know I don't read music and just play by ear but I think I've done ok so far.
The way you've explained the E13th tuning makes sense and sounds very interesting. Would a simple way for me to remember where I am on the fretboard be to think of the 2 types of bar chords on normal guitar? The normal open E type bar chords would relate to E13th tuning bass note position on the E string where in open G tuning the normal open A type bar chord would relate to bass note position on the G string. Does that make sense? Sorry if it doesn't, I've just read your bio on google and am a little overwhelmed. You have done some great work. Do you give lessons? Just kidding.
The Guyatone 8 string is a 22.5" scale length and I will use the gauges you have suggested.
Also I have always thought about buying a peddle steel. Or maybe I should just try to master the 8 string lap first hey?
Thanks again for your help and if I'm ever in the UK I'd love to see you play a few tunes. Let me know if your band is ever touring Australia.
Dallas
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Basil Henriques
Lokahi
United Kingdom
225 Posts |
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