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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2003 : 12:49:55 PM
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It's been suggested that Queen's Jubilee (latest upload to SoundClick is not in the public domain, but my understanding of music copyright law is that a song enters public domain no later than 70 years after the death of the composer (1917 in this case). Can anyone verify this?
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 03/07/2003 12:50:18 PM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 2:22:23 PM
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I do not know the law but found a few links for you to check.
quote:
from: http://www.pdinfo.com/
Music and lyrics written by an American author and published in 1922 or earlier are in the Public Domain in the United States. No one can claim ownership of a song in the public domain, therefore public domain songs may be used by everyone.
http://www.unc.edu/~unclng/public-d.htm
http://www.edu-cyberpg.com/Music/Rowell.html
Not sure how this factors in:
- Song written 1887
- Queen Lili'uo-kalani died 1917
- Hawai`i statehood 1959
That is, the Queen was not "an American author" in 1887.
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Andy |
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rossasaurus
Lokahi
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 4:38:43 PM
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I seem to recall hearing about an extension for copyrights pushed through congress by Disney; those mickey mouse copyrights, you know!
Mickey was due to expire in 2003(his copyrights, not his...um, person) , with Pluto, Daffy, and others soon to follow, and Disney wanted to extend.
Looks like that legislation is in legal appeal now.
Seems the framers of our constitution wanted specifically to limit monopoly rights for any other than "limited" periods of time.
OK, here's the story on Mickey Mouse, et al.; pretty interesting read from one year ago.
http://writ.news.findlaw.com/commentary/20020305_sprigman.html
Here's a bit about term of copyright, from 1996 though:
The term of copyright protection depends on three factors: who
created the work, when the work was created, and when it was first
distributed commercially.
For copyrightable works created on and after
January 1, 1978, the copyright term for those created by individuals is the life of the author plus 50 years.
The copyright term for "works made for hire" is 75 years from the date of first "publication"(distribution of copies to the general public) or 100 years from the date of creation, whichever expires first.
from:
http://www.eff.org/CAF/law/ip-primer
Some more related bits:
For works published on or after March 1, 1989, the use of copyright notice is optional. The fact that a work doesn't have a copyright notice doesn't mean that the work is not protected by copyright.
Fair Use
You don't need a license to use a copyrighted work if your use is
"fair use." Unfortunately, it is difficult to tell whether a particular use of a work is fair or unfair. Determinations are made on a case-by-case basis by considering four factors:
* Factor #1: Purpose and character of use. The courts are most
likely to find fair use where the use is for noncommercial purposes, such as a book review.
* Factor #2: Nature of the copyrighted work. The courts are most
likely to find fair use where the copied work is a factual work rather
than a creative one.
* Factor #3: Amount and substantiality of the portion used. The
courts are most likely to find fair use where what is used is a tiny
amount of the protected work. If what is used is small in amount but
substantial in terms of importance, a finding of fair use is unlikely.
* Factor #4: Effect on the potential market for or value of the
protected work. The courts are most likely to find fair use where the new work is not a substitute for the copyrighted work.
If your multimedia work serves traditional "fair use" purposes -
criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research - you have a better chance of falling within the bounds of fair use than you do if your work is a sold to the public for entertainment purposes and for commercial gain.
The post that wouldn't quit! sorry. |
Edited by - rossasaurus on 03/07/2003 5:07:16 PM |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 5:51:48 PM
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ross,
all of what you wrote is interesting (really!) but noe of what you wrote seems to apply to anything written by queen lili'u...
keith
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Keith |
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cdyas
Akahai
67 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 6:03:18 PM
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Not to be a spoil-sport but I wouldn't worry about it and we could go in cirles forever on this topic. In having delt with some copyright issues for my company website, it would seem to be the reponsibility of the website owner to police content. If the copyright holder felt that their rights were being infringed, they would at first send a letter to cease and desist giving the website a chance to remove the content they felt infringed on the copyright, especially since the song is accessible to the public and no fees are being charged to access it.
To stir up the pot..
If a version of an existing song in PD is published, it may qualify for its own copyright.
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 6:29:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by marzullo
none of what you wrote seems to apply to anything written by queen lili'u...
What I got out of all this is that according to copyright law the song is public domain. What throws a wrench in the works is that neither Hawai`i or her highness were part of America when the song was written. For now, however, I'm going to assume that the song is, in fact, PD until told authoritatively otherwise.
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 8:07:16 PM
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Everything I can find says that the tune is PD--that 1887 date is the biggest factor (assuming that it indicates publication).
Just for fun, I went to the ASCAP and BMI search sites to see whether "Queen's Jubilee" is registered (it isn't), and then tried searching for "Aloha `Oe"--and got 94 hits on ASCAP and 27 on BMI. I didn't check all the ASCAPs, but 4 of the BMI entries credit Her Majesty as co-writer (though her name is slightly to badly misspelled on three of them), and she has her own composer entry, with five credits for "Aloha `Oe" and five more as co-writer of TV music cues--for the likes of "Gomer Pyle," "Magnum, P.I.," and "Here's Lucy." This must have been back in the days of kerosene-powered TV that Led sometimes talks about.
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 10:05:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
It's been suggested that Queen's Jubilee (latest upload to SoundClick is not in the public domain, but my understanding of music copyright law is that a song enters public domain no later than 70 years after the death of the composer (1917 in this case). Can anyone verify this?
Hi Gang,
The answer to this one is yes the original arrangement and publication is in the public domain, but there is a catch. Subsequent publications of arrangements under either US or international copyright protection have been made. Infringement of those arrangements still under protection should be the primary area of concern.
Prior to the overthrow of Lili`u, the Kingdom of Hawaii was a signatory of an international copyright treaty called the Berne Union, Also known as the International Union for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works. It is administered by the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO) out of Geneva, Switzerland. Protection under the Berne Union is extended without formalities to works by nationals of any country on the sole condition that the first publication takes place in a country that belongs to the Berne Union.
Lili`u would publish in both the U.S. and in Europe, in particular Germany, because of her band director, Henry Berger. Many of the musical engraving plates were done on the west coast in San Francisco, since Hawaii did not have any music publishers at that time. Included in one collection from 1891 is the Queen's Jubilee. Protection for this particular song in this collection was extinguished long ago, but different arrangements with their own copyright were made subsequently.
Peter M |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2003 : 10:49:40 PM
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Thanks Peter...I knew about the copyright on new arrangements...Kahili did his own arrangement so that's not a problem.
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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kahili
Aloha
USA
13 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2003 : 01:31:21 AM
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Craig
E kala mai ia'u (I'm sorry) for the pilikia (trouble). I learned a little bit more about this side of music. Keep up the good work.
Kahili |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2003 : 12:58:54 PM
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| Hey, this is interesting and important stuff. Never read so much in a long time. I often wondered about the legalities of using copyrighted music when producing a CD. Any more advice on the protocol of launching a commercial CD. Who to contact first? Copyright registration? Production? Distribution? Costs? Are there any classes out there that provide this type of information? Mahalo for your time. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2003 : 6:04:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mainkaukau
I often wondered about the legalities of using copyrighted music when producing a CD. Any more advice on the protocol of launching a commercial CD.
There are some basics about getting mechanical licenses at the FAQ page for the RMMGA CDs:
http://www.geocities.com/musicaddict47/rmmga/cd3faq.html#2
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aplenty
Akahai
62 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2003 : 8:55:08 PM
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In case it hasn't been posted before... if you are in need of mechanical license for recording, many can be purchased right on-line... try http://www.songfile.com
After you find the original or the arrangement you wish to record yourself, click on the license option and it will walk you through the process.
Aloha,
Sandy |
Aloha nui,
Sandy & Doug |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2003 : 10:22:32 PM
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| A million mahalos to Russell, Sandy and Doug for shining a little light on my darkness. Alohas! |
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Mainkaukau
Lokahi
USA
245 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2003 : 9:27:11 PM
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| Hello, I hope everyone is healthy and happy. Is it possible to copyright a bunch of songs at one time rather than 1 song at a time? Or in other words, can the copyright fee of $30 apply to bunch of songs or does the law require you to pay the copyright fee of $30 per song? Pre Mahalos for your feedback and time, Alohas. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2003 : 01:10:08 AM
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My attoney friend told me the following: The fee is for registration not for the copyright itself. Your song is copyrighted at the time of "publication" which could be the first performance, or could be when you write the song and show it to someone. Registration will only be significant if there comes a court issue regarding infringement. Another way to prove your copyright date is to mail yourself a copy of your song, and don't open the letter. The postmark can be used to prove when you wrote the piece. Not being an attorney, I can't vouche for the above, but I do trust my friend.
Raymond
San Jose |
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