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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 07/28/2008 : 05:52:15 AM
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I JUST REALLY NOTICED THIS and realized it may be significant...
When in open G, or any tuning, there is a minute balance factor that I was taking for granted as being not needing attention...
I usually use a foot-rest, and/or a strap...
When I go from a fretted or barred chord or melodic (where there is some finger pressure on the fretboard)...to say an open G...(perhaps especially for open G --in taropatch--
there is a small shift in guitar body and neck position as I release the left hand. and then an adjustment when the fingers go back into applying their light, but significant counter-pressure!
hence, contributing to the probablity of execution problems...which while rare, have occasionally occurred!
Well, it's a game of millimeters, but it's real...
What are recommended ways to prevent little tectonic shifts in my guitar's position?
Velcro?
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Edited by - Kapila Kane on 07/28/2008 05:53:04 AM |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 06:22:37 AM
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Gordon, as a beginner this problem has really dogged me. I found that every time I learned a new technique the guitar body and neck would tend to shift in a new direction: front to back, right to left, rotating in a vertical plane (so that headstock was higher or lower) and in a horizontal plane (body pitches forward or back as if trying to lie flat on your lap).
Google for advice on holding the instrument and you'll likely come away confused. From those players I've spoken with, there is no one sure fix for everybody, but here's what worked for me:
I gave up and moved the guitar from my right leg to my left and took to using a foot rest and hugging the guitar body close to my torso. This is definitely not what most slack key players do, as you can see on any video or at any kanikapila. For me, it came down to either looking looking cool or dropping the guitar on the floor. I'm a klutz, what can I say?
I found that I strained to finger properly as I learned new left hand positions and so was sometimes placing too much pressure. Letting go of the "death grip" helped.
Especially with slides the guitar body tended to move right-to-left or vice versa. I finally solved that by placing a small six-inch square silicone pad (OK-it's a potholder) between the guitar body and my thigh. No more slipping.
I'm sure the long-time players will have other hints, but these are what helped me.
Good luck.
-Mike |
Edited by - mike2jb on 07/28/2008 06:25:44 AM |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 06:44:54 AM
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mike, it's true that most players don't use this position, but it's a good one to learn. both mark nelson and keola beamer stress holding the guitar on the left leg (assuming you're right handed). jeff peterson plays this way as well.
dave nye once spent the good part of a camp tuning the way i hold the guitar - it helps not only with slippage but also with tone...
aloha,
keith
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 07:24:43 AM
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Yow, where'd you find that picture, Keith?
OK, back to topic:
Not only do I suggest holding the guitar as shown, but I also suggest using a strap to elevate the neck to the proper position. I am not a fan of footrests; but, as you can see, I manage to twist my spine into a knot anyway. Oy.
There are other ways to get the guitar into a comfortable playing position, including those little lower-bout strap dealies like John Keawe uses, and those little pillows that do the same thing. I've also seen folks use a bit of the rubber mat you put in motorhomes or boats to keep the dishes in place.
But -- if you are concerned about movement of a couple of millimeters, maybe you are thinking too hard. Really-- it should not matter one iota if the neck moves forward and back, because your hand, if relaxed, will move with it. Don't believe me? Watch Pete Townsend.. yes, its electric, but a guitar's a guitar. Or watch Led play standing up-- he's all over the place.
Seriously, if you are having problems with a tiny movement of the neck, put on a strap, stand up and try playing while you walk around the room. The point is to learn how to keep your fingers in the proper relation to the neck, not to immobilize the guitar in space.
It looks cool, too. Try a couple windmills...
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 07:46:48 AM
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Those of us who are really serious just have the guitar permanently affixed to our torsos with pop rivets. Saves on further equipment purchases (straps? don't need no steeking straps), and also settles all those arguments about whether to check the guitar when flying.
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 07:52:36 AM
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it's from the 2003 Seldovia Summer Solstice Music Festival web page, which i got to via a google image search of your name...
aloha,
keith
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 08:51:25 AM
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| The pop rivets are a great idea for traveling. So far the airlines don't charge you for individual body parts. So far . . . |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 10:10:00 AM
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| I have to second Mark's comments. I play seated with one of those cushions (which helps prevent spine contortions) with my guitar in a "classical position." Lots of stability there. Also some slight movement - due, among other factors, to breathing, slight movement of the arm, ets. If it's a question of milimeters throwing you off, it sounds to me as if you might be holding your fretting hand too tight/rigid. I think you need to learn to "breathe" with the instrument. Maybe it would be worth it to purposely play in slightly different positions, with different chair heights, etc, to get used to "rolling with the micro punches." |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 11:26:53 AM
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I tend to use a strap and let the instrument sit againt my chest, centered on the body. As I get older, youthful shoulder injuries are catching up with me. I cannot strum a dreadnought sized guitar for very long with it sitting on the right leg; my right shoulder really hurts. I can go quite a while longer with the guitar on the left leg.
When I have a student that insists on resting the guitar on the right leg, I have them fret a chord shape at the 8th or 9th fret. There is a significant back bend to the wrist, the shoulder dips and rolls forward, and several other things happen -- all tensing you up. Then I have them simply move to guitar to the left leg. The wrist opens up to a much more neutral position, the shoulder rolls back to a more upright and relaxed position, and they relax between the shoudler blades. Almost every part of the body has less stress, and the hands have more mobility. Mark and Keola have it figured out.
Mark, you can grab that picture from the Seldovia Folk Festival web site, or I have it downloaded already and can email it to you if you want. Hard to believe that was 2002, already six years ago, when we first met you in Alaska.
- Earl
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2008 : 11:53:26 AM
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quote:
Seriously, if you are having problems with a tiny movement of the neck, put on a strap, stand up and try playing while you walk around the room.
great idea! if you've never done this, you should be surprised how quickly you adapt.
aloha,
keith
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 07:23:38 AM
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There's another reason to practice playing while walking around:
It improves the heck out of your time. Why? Because time in music comes from two places: your heartbeat -- a three-pulse-- and your legs-- a two pulse.
Keith knows what I'm talking about cuz he's one of the Hana Hou Daddies (my uke class at AMC; you had to be there). At one point I had everyone in the class put down their instruments, form a circle and clap clave while we marched around. It is the only way I know to drive home the relationship between the pulse, the rhythm pattern and the beat.
I've seen musical wizard Joe Craven teach fiddle by making everyone walk in a circle; heck, I've seen tons of people teach rhythms this way. So why not try it for the guitar?
Oh, BTW: I knew the photo was from Seldovia-- still one of my favorite festivals ever. Just surprised to see it again after all these years. |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 06:57:42 AM
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Also, when you play walkin', it demands that you don't play from tab...
unless you use a marching band lyre/music holders.
I have a couple I'll trade for a timeshare.
Hmm...marching slack key...
maybe uniforms? |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 10:54:13 AM
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Slack key Sousaphone?
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2008 : 12:51:50 PM
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well, dennis kamakahi's tutu kane played trombone and slack key guitar, so who knows what fusion happened then? ^_^
aloha,
keith
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2008 : 10:49:37 AM
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On the hold,
the finish on the steel string guitar is glossy...
my guitar bout rests on the left leg when seated.
I don't use right hand pinky bracing...
Thusly,
I still notice little guitar angle/position changes.
Taropatch and other Open tunings also mean there may be more times when "counter-pressure" from the left hand is absent.
Walking around is somewhat useful...but when I play sitting, still some minute shifts occur.
Maybe I should quit wearing so much polyester.
What kind of slacks did Segovia wear?
Slack key slacks? |
Edited by - Kapila Kane on 08/03/2008 10:49:58 AM |
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