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ongchua
Akahai
USA
92 Posts |
 Posted - 07/04/2003 : 12:24:27 AM
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Aloha again folks!
After my lesson with Raymond, I've found myself practicing a bit longer and now my back's beginning to ache. Has anyone tried using guitar supports? I know that Raymond uses a Dynarette pad (http://www.vamu.se/). I've seen other products like NeckUp (http://www.neckup.com) and ErgoPlay (http://home.t-online.de/home/a.haertl/ep_f_eng.htm). Has anyone tried using some of these suction-cup supports?
Yeah. I know. It kind of takes away from the relaxed nature of ki ho'alu but some of us have to make-up for unique body structures that we were born with. 
Mahalo!
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 12:55:46 AM
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I've tried the Dynarette and a Gitano guitar support. Neither was comfortable to me, so I'm using a foot stool again and hoping my back behaves.
Something that has helped me is to put a layer of nonskid between leg and guitar - that rubbery mesh shelf lining you can get in grocery stores. Oh, maybe you don't use classical position, but it might be helpful if you keep your guitar on your right leg, too.
I'm sure you know about using as level a chair as you can. Today at my lesson, they had fairly comfy, lean back, knees up conference room chairs in the room. I was surprised at how uncomfortable it was for playing; my poor instructor had to go find a folding metal chair for me. Oddly, the music store has just spent big bucks to construct double-walled sound proof instruction rooms with fancy sealing doors, and then they supply the wrong kind of chairs. Maybe a violinist doesn't care? Don't know.
My instructor calls the little rooms "vaults". They'd give you claustrophobia if the door wasn't glass. |
Pauline |
Edited by - Pauline Leland on 07/04/2003 01:08:49 AM |
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ongchua
Akahai
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 02:35:29 AM
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Hello Pauline,
Thanks for the feedback. Actually, I do use the classical position (Whatever works, huh?).
I had been reading some of the ergonomic info from this website: http://humaneguitarist.tripod.com/index.htm . I'm posting it here in case others might be interested. |
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Popoki
Akahai
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 12:23:26 PM
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Aloha Hans,
I don't play, but am a happy listener  . My Ipo, Kawika, likes using the NeckUp, as does Reid. Also John Keawe uses one. They are fully adjustable. Kawika uses it on his left leg when plays in the classical style with his nylon and on his right leg with the steel string in standard playing position. It works well both ways because it allows you to position the neck at any angle that you want while keeping both feet flat on the floor - he says it works great!
A hui hou, >^..^< |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 12:32:14 PM
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I was curious about these playing aids too. Tried looking them up online one time and couldn't even find them since I had no idea what they were called. Thanks for the links, Hans.
I know Reid has one, but I've never tried it. I also noted that Ozzie Kotani was using on (playing with the guitar on his right leg) during his mainland tour. |
Andy |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 2:01:39 PM
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What Kitty said.
Just wanted to emphasize the adjustability of the Neck-Up (the one Ozzie uses is not) and say that, for me, it was a health issue. It saved my spine both above and below where it is fused. I can keep my back perfectly straight. It also puts the guitar neck at a really ergonomic angle (or any angle you want)so barres, etc. are easier and keeps your feet flat on the floor, too.
In addition, Sarah used it so that she could be physically able to play that borrowed amplified dreadnought of Joe Bommarito's at the Festival. It dropped the wide lower bout so that she could get her picking arm around it and placed the upper bout between her boobs so that she wasn't crushed - girls have special issues, ya know.
If you order it, order an extra set of suction cups - they are the most likely to wear out first, and only cost me an extra $5.
Lastly, there is some worry that the suction cups, being plastic, might harm guitar finishes, especially nitro. I can only say that thaye haven't on my guitars and I have been using the Neck-up for 2 years. I always wipe down the guitar anyway after use, and just make sure I wipe the areas the suction cups were on.
BTW, Benjamin Verdery, the classical guitarist, uses something very much like the Neck-up, but wierder, with 2 suction cups on vertical poles on top of a leather strap on his knee. If he is not worried about damaging his guitars and feels he needs something like this, I can go along with it.
...Reid |
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ongchua
Akahai
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 2:21:11 PM
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Hello Popoki,
The Neck-Up seems to be a possible option. It reads as being adjustable and it attaches to the base pin of the guitar (if it has one).
Hello Andy,
Glad I was able to help. These things are called "guitar supports" and that's how I found them on Google. Of course, the Humane Guitarist website give a rather comprehensive listing of products and dealers; so there's no need to search much further.
Hello Reid,
Thanks for all the feedback. Do you attach your Neck-Up to the base pin or do you just use suction cups? How is the adjustability of the neck angle? I thought the online specs said something like horizontal to 45-degrees. Also, can it be adjusted so the guitar tilts inward (giving you a better view of the surface and frets) while resting squarely on your thigh? The ErgoPlay has this ability which I can see as an advantage depending on your sitting position and the curvature of your thigh.
From your description, Benjamin Verdery is probably using the A-Frame. I read a review from the UK where it was described as a little wobbly compared to the ErgoPlay.
Regarding suction cups, I'm not concerned about damage to my finish since I have an Applause roundback and the sides and back are all synthetic material. What I AM concerned about is whether those suction cups will stick to it solidly enough to my guitar. The surface is sort of a fine orange-peel texture in satin, not a glossy smooth sheen (which is ideal for suction cups). |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 3:05:53 PM
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One tiny comment on suction cups, pro players, etc. If you are a pro, chances are you don't cherish your guitar in the same manner a leisure player will. Rather it is a tool used in your line of work, and if the tool gets a little marked up in making it more useful, well, so be it. You cherish its greater utility.
At one time, maybe still, Andrew York used the Gitano. |
Pauline |
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ongchua
Akahai
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 7:12:44 PM
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Ah well, I ran a little test this afternoon and suction cups won't work on an Applause/Ovation roundback. I guess that I'll have to consider using the Dynarette unless I'm willing to apply some sort of two-sided adhesive to any of the other guitar supports.
Come to think of it, given the rather durable surface of the roundbacks, there's probably no reason why I couldn't just use 3M double-sided tape and just clean off any residue with Goo-Gone.
Hello Pauline,
I can see your point about the guitar being a mere tool. But it can also be a work of art so, doubtless, some folks would be uncomfortable with the risk of marring its finish. |
Edited by - ongchua on 07/04/2003 7:27:28 PM |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 7:43:46 PM
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Hans,
True, true. I was warning that what a pro does with a stage guitar, like Verdery, may not suit an amateur who prizes a guitar's appearance. (Oops, I'm not saying the supports will spoil a guitar's finish.)
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Pauline |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 7:54:34 PM
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Before you use double sided tape, try that non-skid stuff you can get at grocery, drug and haedware stores. Less residue. If you don't like it, you can use it to earthquake proof the dishes.
Raymond |
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ongchua
Akahai
USA
92 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2003 : 11:59:12 PM
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Hello Pauline,
Just carrying-on the concerns of damaging a guitar's finish, I was surfing the 'net last night and I came across a pick-guard called Kling-On (must have been made by a Trekkie guitarist) which attaches by static electricity. Interestingly, a search on Google found a warning of this product as it can damage the laquer finish if it has not fully cured. The concerns are summarized on this website: http://www.somervellguitars.com/kling-on.html . I'm no chemist but I'd speculate that the same effect could be induced by suction cups on a new guitar.
Aloha Raymond!
It's good to see you online! Thanks again for the lesson!
I'm still generally undecided on guitar supports. Do you use the large or small Dynarette? |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2003 : 12:56:48 AM
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| Andy, reread your last post...it got mangled. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2003 : 01:26:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
Andy, reread your last post...it got mangled.
Thanks Craig. Guess that's what happens when you stay up too late. Good thing I got to sleep in.
I think I've seen some touring pros put a piece of duct tape on their guitars. Seems that helps provide "non-slip". No need for double sided tape if this is the case. Again, as Pauline said, only for those who see their instrument as a tool. |
Andy |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2003 : 02:52:06 AM
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Hans,
I use the small cushion.
I think you need to go about this decision by "feel." In SF Bay area -- The pads are typically available at Fine Fretted Instruments on Bascom Ave.in San Jose. Randy is a great guy who is very helpful. Guitar Solo in SF has some of the other styles available - (I have the plastic braket - which works nice except that it keeps popping off) - anyway Guitar solo has a mind blowing selection of music for guitar. Everytime I go there I find something very tasty - and which usually takes me away from slack key for much too much time. I don't go much to Gryphon in Palo Alto, but I would be surprised if they do not have the devices.
Raymond |
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