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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 08/13/2007 : 4:44:03 PM
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Just wanted to know what some of you think.
This is not realy about what I like, but I wanted to preface this question in this way so that it is clear that I admire these musicians and that I am not being critical.
My favorite guitar player is Ozzie Kotani.
My favorite Ozzie CD is "To Honor a Queen".
My favorite piece to play is Steve Sano's arrangement of "Ke Aloha O Ka Haku".
All very modern and complex arrangements of Hawaiian songs (masterpieces to me) but also pretty far away from the styles of Sonny, Kane, and many others.
Are these songs still considered to be Slack Key and if so, why?
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Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 08/13/2007 4:45:02 PM |
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LovinLK
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 5:08:03 PM
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I really enjoy Raymond Kane. His style is so identifiable. One of my favorites is "Punahele".
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Lovin' Lee is my favorite pasttime!!
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Edited by - LovinLK on 08/13/2007 7:11:48 PM |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 08/13/2007 : 8:46:13 PM
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Slack key reaches back in time and also spreads *across* a stylistic space, and, like all dynamic traditions, contains tensions between preservation and innovation. How an individual feels about the "old" and the "new" or the "predictable" and the "exciting" or the "authentic" and the "far-out" (or however one labels the most distant-from-each-other segments of the field) often has more to do with age or individual psychology than any inherent qualities of the work.
Right now, the pillars of slack key authenticity include Gabby, Ray Kane, and Fred Punahoa--but remember the stories about Auntie Alice's take on them: that they were doing modern versions of slack key, not the real old style she was dedicated to transmitting. And she was right--they all diverged from older styles (Gabby especially--like Leonard Kwan, there's a big dose of swing/jazz in his playing). I don't think that Auntie Alice was being a moldy fig, though; rather, she wanted to make sure that the old style didn't get lost with the passing generations--always a danger for an oral/aural tradition. Thanks to her teaching (and that of her students, including, for example, Keola and Ron Loo), it hasn't been lost--and some of those students (especially Keola) are among those pushing the form's boundaries.
I've talked about this with Ozzie in particular, because he is very conscious of the range of styles that is now covered by the "slack key" label. While he might be thought of as "modernist" (whatever that might mean in this context), I've seen him play in and teach the older styles, and I know that he, like Keola, is very aware of the roots as well as the greenest buds on the newest branches of the tradition--and he has said that it's important to add to the tradition as well as preserve it. I'll leave a technical definition of slack key to someone with a better grasp of technical musical language, but I think I can tell the real thing from, say, New-Age-open-tuning guitar. Every tradition has a center and a periphery, and when you can't hear the center any more, you've probably crossed the border into some other territory.
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 07:16:27 AM
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I'll go off on another tangent here. At the Maui Slack Key festival this year the Maui Mayor's representative read a statement proclaiming the last week of June as "Slack Key Week". In that statement some words were "whereas Slack Key is a Hawaiian solo instrumental guitar style".
I cannot disagree more strongly with this phrase.
The slack key legends we have been discussing SANG in most of their works, and were often accompanied by bass and other instruments! (except Ozzie, but I have heard him sing on several occasions) Slack Key is not a solo instrumental style any more than Claw-Hammer Banjo or Flamenco Guitar or Appalachian Fiddle-Style flat picking Guitar are solo instrumental styles!!
Accompaniment by voice or other instruments does not mean it is not Slack Key!
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 08/14/2007 07:17:57 AM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 07:58:50 AM
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We have this discussion once or twice a year. Always interesting.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 09:32:01 AM
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Patrick Makuakane just came through New York last weekend. Is that hula or modern dance, maybe both? Pushing the boundaries of a tradition is not limited to music.
This is a recurring dicussion and rightfully so since there is no clear answer. Here are a couple of points that I would like to throw out there. And this may be controvertial. What is the player's lineage? That is, where did (perhaps more acurately from whom did) he/she learn? One's teacher is going to give some perspective into that player's understanding of slack key, the foundation of where the music is coming from. Second, are there elements of slack key in the song? The song structure and some of the technical things will reflect upon hula, chant, falsetto, even as an instrumental.
This opens up many other questions. Can I play/learn "slack key" here in New Jersey? Especially in the age of technology, can I learn slack key from a book, CD, DVD?
Given Ozzie's lineage, having studied with Sonny Chillingworth, and his understanding of Hawaiian music, I would say that what Ozzie plays is definitely slack key. On the other hand, he has told his students that some of his pieces are traditional slack key while others might be better qualified as an open tuning arrangement, even though played in a slack key tuning. |
Andy |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 10:18:38 AM
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| Does any of it matter? I think that if one is trying to sell something and gives it a name. I hope it lives up to that name. But in the backyard for free , who cares? |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:17:45 AM
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Good input Russel and Andy, thanks.
Noeau, It matters when I try to define what I am playing to others.
(corrected misspelling)
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Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 08/14/2007 12:03:25 PM |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:36:54 AM
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Peter Medeiros may chime in here and correct me. What I learned from him -- there are traditional roots to slack key as accompaniment to hula, hula ku’i. The single instrument, guitar, was the musical accompaniment to the hula. As the solo instrument, it served as beat, rhythm, and lead accompaniment to the vocal mele. In that regard, the alternating bass patterns served as timekeeper, the ins/outs (or open/closed and even/closed positions) served as the rhythm chords, and the fingerstyle picking as the lead. The guitarist sung the mele. The story was illustrated by the hula.
Slack key tunings were used to give the guitar player the flexibility and ease of playing to accomplish all these things at the same time.
Given this, there are musical phrases which we recognize that divide the verses or verses and chorus (hui) ---- vamps or turnarounds. The simple two finger chords give the distinctive “slack key” sound.
I don’t see to many hula dancers smiling when the guitarist plays a “pa’ani”. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:50:40 AM
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I think slack key is alot like da hula. In hula, a lot of da kahiko (ancient) dances have not changed fo generations, and keep being passed down, whereas da `auana dances are more modern, but STILL hula. I believe dat slack key is an essential part of Hawaiian culture. Da old styles will hopefully be passed down through teachers, preserved in recordings and TABS for all of us, and as always, new improvisations and interpretations will arise.
Keola Beamer puts it best: (da final note on wat's needed to play slack key)
A "Pono" attitude or consciousness. You must learn to play with aloha in your heart. Slack key is filled with the beauty and mysticism of the Hawaiian culture. To get the most out of your lessons, come with respect for its traditions and an openess in your heart.
Andy's point is very intersting ... what is our lineage if I learn from a book? I believe that the personal passing down of the slack key is very important. We can only learn so much from a book ... maybe even play songs perfectly, but I believe nothing replaces a good kumu. I also agree with jwn ... wat is slack key? You can tell wen you hear it ...
Great discussion.
P.S. An interview by Ray Kane on (http://www.live365.com/stations/arthadley2) talks about how slack key started, is a great definition of the style, I think. The interview is played probably a couple times a day. |
If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 11:58:10 AM
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| In my uneducated, haole perspective, it is as da joka says...its the heart. That what makes this music so beautiful and so precious. There is no other music on earth that touches me the way this music does, to the point where I almost cannot stand to listen to other music. I think other types of music have been pasturized and electronically enhanced so much that it has taken all the heart and soul and emotion out of it. That is why I am not keen on the new Iz Wonderful World CD. I PERSONALLY believe that DeMello took the heart out of Iz's music. Besides his beautiful voice, it was the kolohe, funny, sweet little asides that made you crack a smile or made you want to weep. Music has to touch an emotion in you, and nothing does it better than slack key, and for that matter, just about any traditional Hawaiian music. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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da_joka
Lokahi
361 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 12:21:21 PM
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Hey Wanda,
quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
In my uneducated, haole perspective, it is as da joka says...its the heart.
I really no can take any credit fo dat ... it was Keola's wisdom ...
I agree wit you about da special kine feeling slack key gives you. Wish I had da right attitude years ago ... since learning about Art's station, it's all I listen to nowdays.
Da closest ting I can tink of is stepping off da airplane in Hilo airport, how my heartbeat immediately slows down from da rush of da city, an how it makes me feel so calm and peaceful :-) Hard fo explain dat. I tink Keola mentioned (on Art's station) again how he tries to get us into da dreamy state between sleep and awake though da music. Wise guy, no him? :-)
malama pono.
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If can, can. If no can, no can. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 1:43:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mika ele
Peter Medeiros may chime in here and correct me. What I learned from him -- there are traditional roots to slack key as accompaniment to hula, hula ku’i. The single instrument, guitar, was the musical accompaniment to the hula. As the solo instrument, it served as beat, rhythm, and lead accompaniment to the vocal mele. In that regard, the alternating bass patterns served as timekeeper, the ins/outs (or open/closed and even/closed positions) served as the rhythm chords, and the fingerstyle picking as the lead. The guitarist sung the mele. The story was illustrated by the hula.
Slack key tunings were used to give the guitar player the flexibility and ease of playing to accomplish all these things at the same time.
Given this, there are musical phrases which we recognize that divide the verses or verses and chorus (hui) ---- vamps or turnarounds. The simple two finger chords give the distinctive “slack key” sound.
I don’t see to many hula dancers smiling when the guitarist plays a “pa’ani”.
I kind of had the feeling that I was going to get drawn into this. I don’t have a lot of time to put into this thread, because it’s lunchtime, semester is starting next week and I also have to fly to New York. So this is off the top of my head and it may not be quite as organized as it should be.
I believe this topic is recurrent, because the readers of this forum have a deep sense of doing the right thing as far as playing is concerned. And there is a strong need to some extent for self-assurance that is if you are playing slack key, what you are playing or creating is accurate or genuine.
Yes, the idea of questioning a player’s lineage is controversial, divisive and prejudicial, but it is being used as a means to determine whether or not a particular performers music is a legitimate representation of slack key. On one hand I find this offensive, on the other hand a lot of stuff being passed off by opportunists to an uneducated public is BS. Personally I feel that the lineage argument is really not a good one, it is disingenuous.
Mentioning a player’s lineage is a means of bringing some kind of validation to that person but it is by no means a true measure of whether or not the guy can play the real thing. Furthermore, when we start using lineage as a means of differentiation, i.e., we only mention the names of players who are known entities who have recordings; it invalidates all of the other people who may have been influential.
Somehow if you mention the name of Sonny, Gabby, Keola, Oz or myself doors open. But it is the untold legion of grandparents, parents and other family members, friends and neighbors who are not as well known who are the real teachers who provide the cultural foundation and awareness – they set the pace of life – even if they are only playing on the back beat, the rhythm and phrasing of the music will reflect this.
When we look at slack key through the view of the host culture (Hawaiians), it is something that we consider ours. It was born from our culture, and for a brief period of time it helped define us. However, as it has evolved from the tradition into an artistic and marketable commodity, it has moved outside of the Hawaiian community and has joined the pantheon of guitar styles and is becoming homogenized.
A slack key player who comes from the tradition sounds a lot different than one who is a trained musician. For instance the right hand of the classically trained player has a full repertoire of disciplined strokes; the traditional slack key player has a limited repertoire of strokes – usually just free and brush stroke. A trained musician will usually have more means of expression at their disposal. A traditional player just has what he has and that’s it.
Both can become very predictable or pedantic. The traditional artist will also lean more towards the strophic or ku’i repertoire and sing, whereas the classically trained artist or one who has aspirations towards that style, will lean more towards the through composed repertoire and not sing. The old timers would tell me “all of the Hawaiian songs have words, so sing them.” The traditional artist will never play or sing a song the same way; there will always be some improvising in the vocal or instrumental phrasing. Whereas the trained musician will more than likely perform an arrangement the same way every time.
As for artistry and tradition, the equation is this: efficiency leads to artistry and away from tradition. I put value on both of these; neither one I feel has exclusivity. You will have favorite artists who straddle both realms, and some who will lean more towards one than the other.
PM
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Edited by - Peter Medeiros on 08/14/2007 1:46:56 PM |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 1:46:27 PM
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I think Wanda's post pretty much says it for me also. But also from my perspective slack key is sacred, but at the same time fully comfortable enough with itself to allow for change and new ideas.
Take a guy like Makana, who honors his roots and pays homage to his teacher but at the same time wants to break new ground, all within the framework of "Slack Key" . |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
Edited by - markwitz on 08/14/2007 3:44:12 PM |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 5:28:18 PM
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The definition is going to vary with each person's perspective, and this is very much tied to their "lineage". Leonard Kwan played a slack version of Grandfather's Clock, an old mainland parlour song.And the recordings we have of him are mostly done on an electric guitar.Not the amps to 10 distortion of a metal band, but electric just the same.A large number of the older group of slack key players recorded songs from other cultures. Isa Lei is a common one, and one of my favorites. It comes from Fiji, so it's still Polynesian.But do Fijians play slack key? The overriding concern to me is to play in a pono manner. And I'm at a loss to really define what is pono in a mainlander attempting to play ki ho alu. I'm not as sure I should be trying, as I'm sure I'm doing it right.I guess if Keola, Ozzie, Patrick Landeza and others didn't feel it was correct, they would have told me to "Beat it- You're not my ohana." I'm not a good enough fisherman to bribe any one for lessons.I discussed this briefly with Patrick last year. He's comfortable teaching us, and I'm comfortable with his answeres to me. There are some songs I don't think I should sing, and in a conversation with Jerry Santos, we decided when in doubt- don't. My mother taught us that when we were growing up. I guess it still holds true. When we get enough consensis on what is slack key, I'll have a better idea what I'm doing right and wrong. At this point, I'm more concerned that what I'm doing is pono. I've already tried adapting songs from other traditions to the slack key style. Ledward plays Turkey In The Straw, I've played it for years, on dulcimer and banjo. Same for Grandfather's Clock. Am I wrong to attempt Radio Hula on banjo?( Even in Old Time circles,banjo is not played so much as it's Committed.Especially when I play.Oh no, he's going to commit banjo again!)
As Wanda pointed out, we get more from traditional Hawaiian music than from most any other kind. But it doesn't have to be slack key- we really love Kindy Sproat, and the Hoopii Brothers, The Macaha Sons, Cazimero Bros, etc. There's some kind of magic here, and I dfon't want to put too much of my style/ mistakes into it.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
Edited by - rendesvous1840 on 08/14/2007 5:29:13 PM |
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kika_polu
Aloha
5 Posts |
Posted - 08/14/2007 : 5:38:26 PM
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| I don't know if I have too much to bring to this topic nor have I the posts or recordings under my belt to make a reputable statement here. But I can make a few points. I learned slack-key from my father. He learned from other slack players and he also had a books. Does this matter? He taught me what he knew and I've pursued the works of slack-key players I like. I've studied some music long after learning my slack and I use it yet I don't care to "break new ground" the way Makana does or thinks he is. He's a decent player but frankly I just don't like what it sounds like (even on a New Age level). I filed it in New Age at the record store I worked at. Now I think he's an example of someone who learned traditionally but has embraced music in a vain manner. It just seems pretentious to me and I don't associate that with slack-key at all but others might disagree. I've never heard of Peter Medeiros, sorry no offense, but I can tell you no one knows who my Dad is but they are quite impressed I learned kiho'alu from "my Dad" (who never played a stage ever). So in response to the original question I just don't see the need to put so much definition or parameters on something so sonic and I think its such a Western idea to do that. I don't think its about strums or time etc. Its something less tangible and that's why this isn't a question with an answer. |
"No one puts Baby in a corner!" |
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Defining Slack key
