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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2010 : 6:52:00 PM
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I know its a matter of turning the volume control at the right moment, but is there any video out there that actually shows the finer points? Or perhaps some of you players have some tips.
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2010 : 08:43:35 AM
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| I'm not sure of what you mean by "violin effect". Moving the volume control, low when you pick, then rapidly upward, affects the "attack" of the note played. You need a volume control on your steel that you can wrap your right little finger around while you pick. You can do this on some, but not all, steel guitars by moving the volume pedal with your pinky while picking, not an easy thing to do. Pedal steel players, and some lap steelers, use volume pedals to do this. It's a lot easier, but you have more to lug around. A volume pedal is a necessary on pedal steel. You can hear Gabby doing it on one of the bridges in "Blue Hawaiian Monlight" on the first Gabby Band album ("when the night is falling"). I noticed that Jerry Byrd used a volume pedal on one of the tunes he played on the Hawaii Public Television show that's floating about YouTube, separated by tune. |
keaka |
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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2010 : 3:42:25 PM
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| I think the "violin effect" is what a lot of steel players call the technique for avoiding the sound of the pick attack by cutting the volume at the right moment; just as you describe, slip. I'd like to watch someone doing it with their pick hand, but I don't think I will be getting a foot pedal. That type of playing does not appeal to me one bit. |
Edited by - Adam Troy on 03/16/2010 3:42:43 PM |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 08:52:48 AM
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| Read my last post. Turning up (and down) the volume control is what I was trying to describe. Good luck. |
keaka |
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Kona
Aloha
USA
10 Posts |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 06:47:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
I noticed that Jerry Byrd used a volume pedal on one of the tunes he played on the Hawaii Public Television show that's floating about YouTube, separated by tune.
Slip, interestingly, Jerry Byrd had a Sho-Bud volume pedal wired with the potentiometer in reverse just to achieve this effect. That is... When he stepped on the pedal, the volume actually got softer. He felt that it was a smoother and more natural motion to get the swell of volume by pulling up on the pedal than by pushing down.
That being said, the Hawaiian steel players typically will not use the volume pedal. They use the knob everytime. Paul Kim, Bobby Ingano, and Jeff Au Hoy have mastered this.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 10:22:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
I noticed that Jerry Byrd used a volume pedal on one of the tunes he played on the Hawaii Public Television show that's floating about YouTube, separated by tune.
Slip, interestingly, Jerry Byrd had a Sho-Bud volume pedal wired with the potentiometer in reverse just to achieve this effect. That is... When he stepped on the pedal, the volume actually got softer. He felt that it was a smoother and more natural motion to get the swell of volume by pulling up on the pedal than by pushing down.
That being said, the Hawaiian steel players typically will not use the volume pedal. They use the knob everytime. Paul Kim, Bobby Ingano, and Jeff Au Hoy have mastered this.
Exceelent point! As I said above, turning the volume knob is not possible on every steel, but all those guys have steels that permit it. That's why I have my C13 tuning on the neck with the controls (and so does Paul), and my B11 on the upper neck of my Fender Stringmaster. Jerry was a marvellous player and a great teacher, but he was ideosyncratic about playing (but aren't we all?). |
keaka |
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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2010 : 12:18:46 PM
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| Thanks, Kona! That video really illustrates the technique well. |
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abrigoohana
Lokahi
271 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2010 : 11:48:28 AM
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I loved the video of Alan Akaka, and I'm sure you find it very helpful. I have two videos of the violin effect I thought you may find helpful. These videos are shot from different angles, so maybe it would help you out from that perspective. The first video is of Uncle Ronald Kanahele, and the second is of his student, Timi Abrigo:
Violin style on 0:43 and again on 2:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4x4fX2HnKI
Violin style on 0:30 and again on 2:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7FZDyW33Fs
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 05:19:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
That's why I have my C13 tuning on the neck with the controls (and so does Paul), and my B11 on the upper neck of my Fender Stringmaster. Jerry was a marvellous player and a great teacher, but he was ideosyncratic about playing (but aren't we all?).
"Ideosyncratic" is the perfect word for it. Funny, your set-up is exactly the same as mine (C13 on inside neck, and B11 on the outside). But I still can't get this effect because I play a Fender Dual-Professional and the horseshoe pick-ups make it impossible to get to those knobs. The same pick-ups also make it impossible to mute strings like Feets did. And so I am forever looking for a Stringmaster...
On the contrary, Alan Akaka is the master of B11, but despite that is his main tuning, he puts this tuning on the outside neck. Also ideosyncratic is the forward tilt to his steel - the front legs positioned slightly shorter than the back. I swear when I play his steel that I think I am going to knock it over every time. I have seen some players keep the left side of the steel higher than the right or vice-versa, but I have only ever seen Alan put the front lower than the back. I thought about it long and hard, and this would probably be the OSHA-approved position since it is far more natural to have the wrists out straighter than bent at 90-degree angles. Regrettably, I may never know as the Dual Professional has only three legs. 
Jerry played a single-neck. And he could change to any of a dozen tunings in about 7 seconds. That's ideosyncratic. David Keli'i had four steels on most gigs to accomplish the same feat.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 06:41:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hwnmusiclives
quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
That's why I have my C13 tuning on the neck with the controls (and so does Paul), and my B11 on the upper neck of my Fender Stringmaster. Jerry was a marvellous player and a great teacher, but he was ideosyncratic about playing (but aren't we all?).
"Ideosyncratic" is the perfect word for it. Funny, your set-up is exactly the same as mine (C13 on inside neck, and B11 on the outside). But I still can't get this effect because I play a Fender Dual-Professional and the horseshoe pick-ups make it impossible to get to those knobs. The same pick-ups also make it impossible to mute strings like Feets did. And so I am forever looking for a Stringmaster...
On the contrary, Alan Akaka is the master of B11, but despite that is his main tuning, he puts this tuning on the outside neck. Also ideosyncratic is the forward tilt to his steel - the front legs positioned slightly shorter than the back. I swear when I play his steel that I think I am going to knock it over every time. I have seen some players keep the left side of the steel higher than the right or vice-versa, but I have only ever seen Alan put the front lower than the back. I thought about it long and hard, and this would probably be the OSHA-approved position since it is far more natural to have the wrists out straighter than bent at 90-degree angles. Regrettably, I may never know as the Dual Professional has only three legs.
Jerry played a single-neck. And he could change to any of a dozen tunings in about 7 seconds. That's ideosyncratic. David Keli'i had four steels on most gigs to accomplish the same feat.
Re the Fender Pro: My first 8 string was a single neck Fender Pro. I found the same problem you talk about, Bill. Then I had the great fortune to pick up my double 8 Stringmaster from a Seattle musician for $1000, and I love it! It is also difficult on a Pro to damp the strings while playing because everything is encapsulated.
Re tilting: It is easier on your hands if you're playing a long gig. Even pedal steel guys do it. Alan taught me to do it, and it is very comfotable. On my single * Stringmaster, the single leg is in the middle, so I make it the short one.
Re Alan: My lessons with Alan often involve getting around on the B11 neck. He IS indeed a master of any steel, and has been for a long time. He's a great teacher and a friend, and my reason to go to HI next month. btw, he currently is playing an old single 6 Rickenbacher. He says he is trying to simplify his style and capture the essence of Hawaiian steel. And, Rick's sound wonderful!
Re Jerry: I have a sheet that No'eau gave me, and I think it's in his teaching book about how to pick string gauges for a 6 string steel and how to retune into any of the tunings he uses in his book. I have discovered that, because I have a high G on my C6 neck, that tuning the 5th string G to an F# gives me the same harmonic relation as B11, but in C rather than A.
Aloha, and keep pickin'! |
keaka |
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Adam Troy
Akahai
Australia
58 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 7:17:51 PM
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| Thanks, Abrigoohana for those vids. Love your website too. Its great to see young people coming up on the steel. Personally, I think it is great that Timi seems to be under the influence of Uncle Ron. Ron's attack is quite, how shall I put it? Quite native. That is in comparison to many European and American players who favor a kind of conservatorium perfection. I like the gutsy approach reminiscent of the older recordings. When it comes to the Violin Effect, it seems the trick is to go about creating your note a lot earlier than normal because you have to close the volume, pick, and start opening the volume just before the note appears in the melody. Nothin' to it, right? |
Edited by - Adam Troy on 03/26/2010 7:20:24 PM |
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Kona
Aloha
USA
10 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2010 : 7:23:13 PM
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quote:
...the Hawaiian steel players typically will not use the volume pedal. They use the knob everytime.
The volume pedal cannot give a true violin effect, only the knob does that because it must be done with a very quick turn. Hawaiian steel guitar players historically have used the knob for the violin effect such as the great Sol Ho'opi'i and David Keli'i. What great precedents they set.
Besides using a volume pedal does not sound very Hawaiian, except maybe on Paradis Isle. but even with that song I prefer the knob.
I think the volume pedal also gives out a sound more akin to the country western sound. IMHO
Aloha,
Kona
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Edited by - Kona on 03/26/2010 8:18:12 PM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2010 : 03:02:02 AM
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@ Slip - I want to talk to you offline some time about that high G on the C6th neck. Been considering trying that for years. It is such a pain - don't you agree - not to have a 5th on top in the major chord in the C6th (or C13th) tunings? I have a very nifty ten string steel around - a hand-me-down from my father who plays the Alkire eharp tuning - on which I thought I could play around with expanding the C6th by adding a tone on the top and the bottom. My question has always been... What tone to add on the bottom? Something to create a diminished chord, maybe? Anyone else have any other thoughts on this? Anyway, adding a 5th on top essentially creates the A6th tuning tuned down to C and gives many more of the possibilities of the B11th (which has A6 on the top strings).
@ Bob - You are so right. The attack with the volume pedal cannot match the attack with the volume knob. The knob also tends to give that Doppler effect in which not only the volume but the tone changes. It is really nice to hear, and really tricky to pull off.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
Edited by - hwnmusiclives on 03/29/2010 04:10:37 AM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2010 : 08:07:54 AM
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Hey Bill -
I'm still very much a newbie on the steel--but maybe I can help.
I've been using Jerry Byrd's C6/A7 on my 10 string Fender Deluxe. Amazing tuning--it's got major 6, minor 7th & dominant 7th chords all within EZ reach. And, having a dominant 7th, it's also got those diminished triads on three adjacent strings. Yum.
A-C# E-G-A-C-E-G
(That's low to high--- I know there is some controversy over how best to write out tunings, but this is the way I was taught & I'm sticking to it.)
Notice that you have a I6-VI7-ii7-V7 all within two frets.
BTW: I keep my 6 string in A6 tuning, cuz it has the 5th on top.
Just a little bit crazy making to switch from one to the other....
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/31/2010 : 08:31:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mark
Hey Bill -
I'm still very much a newbie on the steel--but maybe I can help.
I've been using Jerry Byrd's C6/A7 on my 10 string Fender Deluxe. Amazing tuning--it's got major 6, minor 7th & dominant 7th chords all within EZ reach. And, having a dominant 7th, it's also got those diminished triads on three adjacent strings. Yum.
A-C# E-G-A-C-E-G
Wow. I am almost sold. But be honest: How often do you hit with C# when you didn't mean to? 
I should have learned the eharp tuning when my father was willing to show me. The possibilities of that tuning are endless. But I also watched him struggle - and heard him hit more than his fair share of clinkers because the gap picking is enough to turn one's hand into a lobster claw.
I had heard of this combination tuning, but I didn't know it had a 5th on top. I shan't write again until I have thoroughly vetted this tuning.
Thanks, Mark!
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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