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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
 Posted - 12/31/2011 : 03:28:29 AM
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Hello.
As a new-bee to steel string guitars, I'm wondering what nut width people are preferring? In earlier years I did play classical on a nylon stringed. For my project 'slack key explorations' I bought a A&L Ami, checking further it has a nut width of 1.72 (1 11/16?). I find it very narrow, but hoping I shall get used to it.
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 03:48:07 AM
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| For fingerstyle, I require a minimum of 1.75" (1-3/4") and prefer 1.88" (1-7/8). Seagull's Peppino D'Agostino Artist Series guitar offers 1.9". I think I'd love that but I haven't yet had a chance to play one. The string spacing at the nut should be expanded appropriately to take advantage of the nut width. Some builders and manufacturers don't do that enough but you can always replace the nut with a custom. |
- Keo |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 08:06:54 AM
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I agree with Vlog. The nut should probably be at least 1.75" unless you have really small hands. There should certainly be space enough on your neck to have the 1.72" nut replaced with a wider one. What is really important is the string spacing rather than the actual nut width. When I build guitars, I try to match the spacing of my Taylor 612 C which I find to be just about perfect. The spacing is ~7mm or 5/32" with the 6th and 1st string ~ 3.5mm or 1/8" from the edge of the nut. Nut width for this guitar is 1.75" or 44.8mm.
Hope this helps
Aloha, Allen |
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neeej
`Olu`olu
USA
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 08:13:29 AM
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| Nuttin' <hehehe> wrong with sticking to classical, if that's what you like & are used to, either :-) |
--Jean S |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 09:14:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by neeej
Nuttin' <hehehe> wrong with sticking to classical, if that's what you like & are used to, either :-)
I happen to like slack key on classical or flamenco guitars with 52-54mm nut widths. But I will acknowledge that some pieces benefit from a brightness or sparkle that works better on steel.
7th and 5th fret harmonics are weaker on nylon as well. I sometimes shift my right hand closer to the bridge to get more volume when executing these. Ambrosius should be familiar with the physics behind this method.
I haven't yet found a 1-7/8" nut-width steel that I really like for slack key and that can fit into my "I've got a kid going to college soon" budget. I make do with an very inexpensive 1-3/4" nut-width OM for some pieces. |
- Keo |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 1:36:00 PM
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I use nylon string guitars(classical)when I can but sometimes the nylon sound does not go well with a tune. A lot slack key tunes sound great on nylon though .
However, I think you must have a steel string guitar to do many slack key tunes proper justice. In my youtube videos (slackkeybob) for instance, even though I prefer nylon, 6 are on nylon and 9 are on steel.
So, IMHO, you will need a steel string guitar--no doubt about it in my mind, and 1 3/4" is the shortest nut I can work with.
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Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 12/31/2011 1:43:44 PM |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 2:32:37 PM
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Folks:
Interesting discussion. Since I'm a real novice at this, I must ask: Why the preference for a wider nut (and I assume more space between the strings)? I suspect I know the answer since I have to struggle to keep my fingers from bumping adjacent strings and ruining the legato quality of some tunes. My inexpensive Fender cutaway dreadnaught has an 1-11/16 nut. Would it be better if I went to 1-7/8 or so?
Mahalo.
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Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 4:21:31 PM
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Speaking only for myself, the advantages of wider string spacing are:
- Less likelihood of a fretting finger bumping into (and muting) an adjacent string. I'm not strumming the guitar and sometimes will need my individual notes to sustain for as long as possible.
- Greater margin for error for executing slurs (i.e. hammer-ons and pull-offs).
- Greater flexibility in fretting positions.
Probably the biggest disadvantage is that thumb-fretting can be very difficult, perhaps even impossible. I prefer not to fret with my thumb. Jazz-style chords which may include an index-finger barre are supposedly easier with narrower string spacings. I don't know how true this is but it is claimed to be one of the rationales for the evolution of narrow string spacing.
I feel that the guitar should suit the player and not the other way around. I started out with wide spacings and am accustomed to that. If you have no problem with the spacing of a 1-11/16" nut width then you should stick with it. Switching to a different size might only create more problems.
Mind you, I'm not a teacher. These are just my opinions which are the products of barely four years of on-and-off study. |
- Keo |
Edited by - GuitarVlog on 12/31/2011 4:33:08 PM |
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noeau
Ha`aha`a
USA
1105 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2011 : 5:09:14 PM
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| I like 50mm or on steel almost 2 inches. I like to have mucho clearnce between strings so I donʻt buzz or mute next door neighbors too much. I getting makule so the barre is not so good some times so slack key is good or 3 note chords is fine for me. |
No'eau, eia au he mea pa'ani wale nō. |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 01:18:54 AM
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Thanks to everybody.
This makes sense. I am really struggling to play clean especially below the 5th fret, and without muting neighboring strings. I was hoping it was "me", but I guess my fingers will not get smaller over time.
So at least 1 3/4 (1.75) inches? Yes I think that will do, and make a real difference to 1.72 inches the A&L AMI I have today. I have already been in contact with the shop, and they seems to accept a swap to a Seagull or anything. It's a petty really, as I liked the AMI's (parlor) small size. I guess it's hard to find a small steel string with the wider neck.
Thanks again. |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 04:47:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ambrosius
... they seems to accept a swap to a Seagull or anything.
Typical Seagulls with their 1.8" nut widths are rather good but you should play the instrument first if possible to see how well the nut spacing works for you.
Note that you can later widen the string spacing a little more by having a technician or a luthier carve you a new nut. Unless you know what string spacing is ideal for yourself (taking into account the distance of the 1st and 6th strings from the edges of the fretboard), I would consult with a good luthier on this modification.
Good luck! |
- Keo |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 05:01:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ambrosius
I guess it's hard to find a small steel string with the wider neck.
There are 0 and 00 guitars with 1.75 inch nut widths out there but I have not played many of them. The ones that I have played left me disappointed with their weakness in the bass. All of them were assembly-line instruments.
I find the 000/OM body to be ideal. Seagull makes a model with a classical guitar body (with 14 frets, I think the bridge is shifted up) but I haven't played enough of them. I think they call it their "Folk" model.
Some luthiers build full-scale small-bodied guitars with nut widths from 1.75 to 2 inches but these instruments are beyond my discretionary spending as they start at a minimum of $2k. |
- Keo |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 08:26:34 AM
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Thanks Vlog
quote:
Typical Seagulls with their 1.8" nut widths are rather good but you should play the instrument first if possible to see how well the nut spacing works for you
Yes, that would be nice, but not possible I think. The shop did not have a single Seagull in, so I have to persuade them to take one in for me.
quote:
Note that you can later widen the string spacing a little more by having a technician or a luthier carve you a new nut. Unless you know what string spacing is ideal for yourself (taking into account the distance of the 1st and 6th strings from the edges of the fretboard), I would consult with a good luthier on this modification.
Would that be possible? Actually I am surprised taking the measurements. The nut measures exactly 43.4 mm and 1 - 6th string 36.6 mm making 6.8 in "spare".
Huh, - technician? What's wrong with myself? A steady hand and expert with a file :-) I can make a nut. 3.4 mm in each side, - how much do I need without the strings are "falling off" the fret board? |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 08:38:51 AM
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I'll do it. Thinking about it, - from 1.72 " to 1.75 " is less than a mm in difference, actually only 0.762 mm.
I just need a piece of bone  |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2012 : 09:33:35 AM
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The more I think about it, - what a brilliant idea. It had never struck me. I have exactly 3 mm in spare on the 1st string and 2.5 on the 6th, before the fret board starts falling off. I can take, say 1 mm one the treble string and 0.5 mm on the bass side, making it 1.5 mm in total?
I'm double happy with such a solution, as I regard this an "intermediate" instrument. Before someone send me off, I shall have the pleasure of owning a hand buildt premium piece, preferable in Koa. So trying out, is a nice thing. |
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JimC
Lokahi
USA
135 Posts |
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Topic |
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Nut width
