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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
 Posted - 02/08/2012 : 01:09:02 AM
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First a discussion on the term folk music. Wikipedia has a rather good article on this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folk_music
As one can see, the term is not definite. Personally I prefer 'contrasted with commercial and classical styles' as understanding of folk music. In my own culture (nordic european), folk music today is very much understood as traditional folk music - maybe centered on 19th century, although contemporary folk music is very much a subject and with a very active community.
How is it in Hawaii?
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 05:12:59 AM
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| The music that folks play. Classical and commercial styles are extremes of folk music, drawing their influences from older existing forms while influencing future traditions. A good tune is a good tune, it will not go to waste. Besides quarter tones, there are only 12 notes to play with. Preservation and innovation are parts of the folk process. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 06:48:55 AM
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The explanations of what constitutes folk music that I've found most useful emphasize the transmission mode--that is, it's music that moves through a community by oral/aural rather than written means. That way, through-composed music can enter an oral tradition from a literate/commercial one, the way Tin Pan Alley tunes became part of the music of western European gypsies. You can find Roma kids happily wailing away on Gershwin or Rodgers & Hart tunes that they learned from their elders, who learned them from theirs, who picked them up from Django Reinhardt records.
I've seen definitions that insist on some kind of compositional purity, which would separate the composed imports from the generated-by-the-anonymous-ancestors material, but that's practically theological in its fussiness. My observation is that actual musicians often simultaneously steal, take inspiration, invent, reinvent, and mix and match--though I suppose there are traditions that make a point of maintaining a kind of purity for all or part of their repertory.
I just finished assembling a grant application for our local folk-music society's concert series, and I made a point of describing what we book as including both folk and singer-songwriter-instrumentalist traditions, just in case someone decided to ding us for showcasing urban performers of composed songs instead of, say, ancient dirt farmers or actual Bulgarian wedding bands.
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 08:04:07 AM
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quote:
The music that folks play. Classical and commercial styles are extremes of folk music, drawing their influences from older existing forms while influencing future traditions. A good tune is a good tune, it will not go to waste. Besides quarter tones, there are only 12 notes to play with. Preservation and innovation are parts of the folk process.
But geee, - what has been written and played based on those 12. Folk music, - isn't that more free, so to speak ... not within such strict rules, and by that itself encourage innovation? |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 08:15:40 AM
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quote:
that is, it's music that moves through a community by oral/aural rather than written means. That way, through-composed music can enter an oral tradition from a literate/commercial one, the way Tin Pan Alley tunes became part of the music of western European gypsies
Certainly the flow has been both ways. But certainly, not all Hawaiian music is folk music?
For my part, I have problems not seeing folk music as traditional, as you as well implies in 'oral rather than written means', if I understand you correctly. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 09:31:43 AM
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| Man, folklorists and ethnomsicologists have been fighting over what is "folk music" for the last 75 years, if not 100. I've had people tell me that folk music is Bob Dylan and Joanie Mitchell - NOT, imho. Jus' pass, and play on, I say. |
keaka |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 10:32:10 AM
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Jus' pass, and play on, I say
Reasonable enough, slipry1 
However, - my curiousness is out of I'd like to learn more about cultures. Learn what different cultures eat and what they sing and dance, you've learnt a lot.
Is it unreasonable to think that all Hawaiian slack key and steel guitar music, are folk music? |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 12:24:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ambrosius
Is it unreasonable to think that all Hawaiian slack key and steel guitar music, are folk music?
Not "unreasonable," per se, but any time you try to find a specific box or label or genre-name to cover a range of musical performances or recordings, someone will always be able to find exceptions. It's unwise to make generalities when describing any forms of artistic expression. |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2012 : 2:11:49 PM
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| Ambrosius - Ethnomusicology is a branch of ethnology that studies the musical cultures of the world. There are several universities that have ethnomusicology programs: UCLA, University of Washington, University of Oregon, Indiana U, to mention a few. I don;t know hwere you're located, but you could inquire about programs in your area. There may also be something on the web. I was fortunate to be at UCLA in the 60's when their program was going strong. What an eye-opener (or maybe I should say, ear-opener)! |
keaka |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 03:44:30 AM
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Ambrosius, before you could attempt to make a generality such as "All Hawaiian music is folk music," you would first have to define Hawaiian music.
And as many Hawaiians will tell you, not all Hawaiian music is Hawaiian music.
It is best to skip generalities.
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 05:04:38 AM
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"Style is based on limitations." - John Hartford. Instruments, scales, harmonies, modes, time signatures, subject material, etc are such limitations. When I play torader (2-row buttonbox), old Norwegians get homesick for the old country. When I play slack key, folks from Hawai'i get homesick. Music is communication, communicating sense of place, history, identity, humor.
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Edited by - thumbstruck on 02/09/2012 05:07:38 AM |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 06:31:56 AM
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quote:
Ambrosius, before you could attempt to make a generality such as "All Hawaiian music is folk music,"
Well, I didn't. Cite me gladly, but cite me correctly. First of all, it was a question, not a statement. Secondly I didn't write "All Hawaiian music", I did write "all Hawaiian slack key and steel guitar music".
The entire thread is based on curiosity, an eagerness to learn, explore, understand ... so by all means, I am not in position to make neither statements nor assumptions of any kind about Hawaiian music.
quote:
It is best to skip generalities.
Agrees. |
Edited by - Ambrosius on 02/09/2012 06:34:27 AM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/09/2012 : 06:34:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by thumbstruck
When I play torader (2-row buttonbox), old Norwegians get homesick for the old country. When I play slack key, folks from Hawai'i get homesick.
...and when I play any kine music, any kine people jus' get sick!
(My generality for the day, thankew...) |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
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Ambrosius
Lokahi
132 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2012 : 12:00:51 PM
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...and when I play any kine music, any kine people jus' get sick!
Well that might well be. Kine music is one of the word I don't understand. I've rediscovered Google, so asking google I got the answer.
http://www.kinemusic.com/ Just me and thumstruck on this forum will understand the language, since she is Norwegian, though. |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2012 : 12:30:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Ambrosius
Kine music is one of the word I don't understand.
Ambrosius, I am so glad you found this forum and are asking the questions you are asking! You may soon be the only person in your area to understand some of these things.
In this case, the use of the word "kine" is a reference in Hawaiian-Island pidgin (a creole language developed as communication between people coming together from various linguistic backgrounds) - in English, in this particular case, my statement can translate to "any kind of music" - it was self-deprecating humor, whereby I was mildly insulting my own music-playing skills and abilities, suggesting that anyone listening to me play would be nauseated.
And in return, I am happy to learn of the existence of the Norwegian performer known as "Kine" - thank you for that exchange of musical information! |
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Hawaiian Folk Music
