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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2012 : 07:58:30 AM
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We've been to this topic before, but things change, and best places and models maybe too.
Am looking at a guitar from a friend's estate.
but since I have other ways to keep him in my thoughts...thought I'd better be practical and look around.
The guitar is a first build, with someone who studied with ...and has some concerns with setup, problems and they are asking $1,600.
First question, do some Classics NOT HAVE A TRUSS ROD?
Action, nut, and saddle may need some attention, and, generally not a well known builder....
What good values should I be looking at, and perhaps Where?
thinking more like in
400 to 800 range.
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 1:05:46 PM
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I don't recall ever seeing a classical guitar with a truss rod--though that doesn't mean that a modern builder might not include, say, an ebony or carbon-fiber reinforcing element in the neck structure. Nylon strings don't extert the kind of pull that makes an adjustable truss rod desirable in a steel-string.
At $1600 for the first instrument from an unknown maker, it would have to be a pretty good guitar and not need any serious setup or repair work.
I've been out of the market too long to have any well-informed recommendations for a classical, though used Guild Mark series classicals are often available for decent prices.
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2012 : 8:41:56 PM
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Truss rods have been introduced in classical guitars only recently; I'd say within the last 10-15 years. This is because builders and manufacturers are shipping them to all parts of the world where they have to deal with a variety of humidity conditions and they want that added security that the neck can be adjusted.
Even today, most classical guitars will not have truss rods. They typically don't need them because the total tension of nylon strings is notably lower than steel strings. A truss rod also adds weight to the neck and some players don't like that.
In the $400 to $800 range, these would be on my evaluation list (in no particular order):
- A discounted Takamine C132S (cedar top). It will fit into your budget if you can get a 15% discount by haggling. It is the least expensive guitar that is made in Japan. The current models have truss rods.
- A Yamaha CG192C (cedar top) or CG192S (spruce top). Some of the lower-end models are quite good too. These are made in China by Yamaha's fully-owned subsidiary.
- A Kenny Hill Estudio. These are made in China. The current models have truss rods.
- A Cordoba C7 with a cedar top. The C5 is also a very good value and will cost under $400. The all-solid C9 and C10 might fit in your budget if you get a 15-20% discount off the street price. These are made in China and I believe they come from the same factory as the Kenny Hill Estudios. The current models have truss rods.
- A Montalvo student guitar. These are made in Paracho, Mexico, for the Berkeley Music Instrument Exchange in Northern California.
- A student guitar from the workshop of Francisco Navarro Garcia in Paracho, Mexico. A few shops import his guitars. These are made by the relatives and assistants of Sr. Navarro. Don't confuse them with the "J. Navarro" brand guitars which are made in China.
Obviously, if you buy used, you can get better instruments for less cash.
If you know how to evaluate classical guitars, or can have a capable classical guitarist assist you, then you should be able to find a very good one from that list.
If you know little or nothing about classical guitars, the safe bet is usually a Yamaha or the Takamine. |
- Keo |
Edited by - GuitarVlog on 03/12/2012 06:42:18 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 02:09:57 AM
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As already mentioned, classical guitars--the well made ones anyway--don't necessarily have truss rods. My oldest and best guitar has no truss rod but my two lesser guitars do.
As far as moderately priced classical guitars go, you could also consider the Alvarez AC60SC. I have one and it is my most used guitar.
It is made in Japan, the tone is good, has a cutaway, has a very good pickup system with EQ, and a truss rod. It goes for around $600. If curious you can see and hear one in my youtube video of Ozzies "Goin' Country". My profile has the link. |
Bob |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2012 : 05:26:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RWD
... you could also consider the Alvarez AC60SC.[/br]
Unfortunately, the AC60 and AC60SC were discontinued. My understanding is that their replacements are the AC65 and the AC65SCE and that both are made in China.
I haven't played any Alvarez Yairis. There don't seem to be many dealerships where I live. |
- Keo |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 07:46:36 AM
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Thanks for the update on Alvarez. Maybe the model I have is made in china too. I will have to look when I get home. The new one looks just like the old except the EQ appears to be smaller--the EQ model number seems to be the same but may have another character at the end. Only $400 now.
I noticed that they have a CY-140 cutaway...very interesting. Now I have to try to forget that they even exist. LOL!
What ever you decide to buy, and I am sure you are aware, nylon doesn't like to have the tuning changed. I have four classicals from el-cheapo to the CY-140 and I use them all (different tunings).
I use the AC60sc the most because of the pickup system and cutaway and I use my best one for recitals (etc) where I do not need amplification.
I am definitely in favor of nylon for Slack Key but as I have said in the past most of my recordings have been done on steel. When you need sustain, you just gotta have it. And, sometimes the plunky tone doesn't work for me. When it does work, I love it!
Update on my AC60sc: The label says it was made in China, so the new model should be very similar to the old. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 03/09/2012 09:02:17 AM |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 10:34:05 AM
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I'm not going for this particular guitar.
so all advice on others is good, and radar is up...the search has just begun.
Of course, when you find something you love, it's going to be discontinued, (or continued in a different, often cheaper way).
Murphy's Slack Law?
Well, trying to be funny, but it's just too early on Friday. |
Edited by - Kapila Kane on 03/09/2012 10:35:57 AM |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 11:35:52 AM
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Good luck on your search! Let us know what makes it to your short list.
BTW, LaPatrie is also a good brand and the quality of their guitars is consistent. They're manufactured by Godin which is the same company that makes Seagull guitars. They're also unique in that the fretboards are radiused which helps some folks with barres.
They didn't make my short list because I prefer my nylons on the brighter side with a good deal of string clarity. Every guitar is different so you might come across a LaPatrie that suits your taste. |
- Keo |
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GuitarVlog
Akahai
USA
60 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2012 : 12:22:59 PM
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I think I should also mention this. These are a few labels that I would avoid:
- Marcario - These are sold on eBay and the seller claims they are made in France. Based on photos that I've seen, I believe these are made in China by SinoMusik and they are notably overpriced IMHO.
- New Masters Guitar - These are sometimes found on CraigsList and on eBay for $1000-$2000. They are also made by SinoMusik and are overpriced as well IMHO. You can order SinoMusik's top-of the line guitar directly from them for $500 shipped. Don't confuse them with Kenny Hill's "New World" series.
- "Navarro" - Previously mentioned. Made in China. They're okay but I think they're overpriced and I wouldn't consider one without playing it first. Don't confuse them with guitars made by Francisco Navarro Garcia.
- Mangore or Bellucci - These are made in Latin America and sometimes show-up on eBay. A few "buyers" claim to love them but a lot of verified customers felt that they were suckered. One prominent shop in New York has stated on their website that they will NOT accept these guitars for repairs because they're too much trouble.
There are other Chinese-made guitars that are being re-labeled and/or sold for ridiculously high prices. It can be an absolute minefield out there for the uninformed buyer. If you're not careful, you could wind-up with an instrument that horribly underperforms for the money and that will have terrible resale value. |
- Keo |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 03/12/2012 : 03:33:13 AM
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I do not see the Breedlove classicals mentioned here. I purchased a Breedlove N250/CRe with a blemish at GoodGuys in Kapahulu for $350. It is my "go to" guitar.
~ Bill |
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HELP{! values in classic style guitars?
