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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
 Posted - 07/02/2012 : 03:42:29 AM
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As some may know I am a fan of nylon guitars. Last week a guitar shop called me to let me know a special taylor Koa nylon guitar was in stock so I went down to check it out. I have never picked up a Taylor nylon guitar that I found to be worth buying and it included this new special Taylor. Its like they have no resonance--they are dull. I am begining to think Taylor does not have a clue when it comes to nylon.
I think tayor makes a very good steel string guitar and I would own several of there models with no problem.
Could it be that I am finding only the a poorly made guitars? Do they actually make a good nylon guitar?
I am certain someone will be irritated by my opinion but, oh well.
I think Taylor needs to be called out on it.
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Bob |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 04:56:40 AM
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I've never tried a Taylor nylon string guitar. However, I've visited the factory, where it was abundantly clear that quality control was of the highest importance. Their use of CNC machines and so on ensured a very high level of consistency. If they sound a certain way, it's because they have been especially designed and built to sound just that way. Unless we've moved to a parallel universe, they would not let anything 'poorly made' out of the factory doors.
To say you don't like the sound of them is fair criticism. That's entirely a matter of taste. You like the sound of something or you don't. And there's never been an instrument that everyone likes the sound of.
But to call them 'poorly made', or to say Taylor 'don't have a clue' is, I think, unlikely to be the case. |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 06:35:29 AM
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Hey Bob I agree with you on the Taylor nylon string guitar sounding dull with very little resonance and projection. I have an Aria AC35CE, cutaway with electronics (Fishman)made in Spain. I love the guitar amped & unplugged. Anyway I played "Ku'u Kika Kahiko" side by side with Shuji Asakawa(slowhandeagle on YouTube)and it wasn't even close. My Aria put that Taylor nylon to shame.Not sure what model the Taylor was. It was a beautiful guitar but in this case......looks was deceiving.
Yeah Trev, Taylor guitars are the most consistant guitars on the market. One time I tried out 2 Martin D-28s. One was a stud but the other was a dud. I traded my low end Taylor 210 laminate for the Aria mentioned above because the Aria had electronics. I really thought I was trading down. Man did I hit the jackpot with the Aria. |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 08:01:08 AM
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I played those Taylors a few times in different music stores when I lived on the mainland and agree that the ones I played weren't too impressive acoustically.
The ones I played did have consistently good necks with good action. They definitely maintain the hype about Taylor "playability".
Based on live recording I have heard, they sound pretty good plugged in as well.
My Takamine is similar in that respect; not great acoustically, but the electronics make up for it live.
Duke's Aria is pretty mean both acoustically and plugged in. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 1:40:19 PM
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| I own two Taylor Steel Strings, and I've owned, but sold, two others. I'm a hard core Taylor owner. While I'm not a fan of nylon, I'm less a fan of Taylor all-koa steel string guitars. I've passed on a couple for which I had a chance to buy and one of the ones that I sold was all koa. None had any resonance. Maybe they do a better job with more expensive koa rigs, but they wouldn't be my first choice if I was shopping for koa. |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2012 : 5:12:43 PM
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I'm with you on the All-Koa Taylors Terry. I got 2 friends with high end All-Koa guitars both don't impress me amplified or unplugged. The Expression electronics sucked. When they used the Fishman it was better. From the chatter on other guitar forums it seems a lot of Taylor owners replace the factory electronics wth an L.R.Baggs system. Another friend had a Rosewood (Not sure if Brazilian or Indian) & a Mahogany Taylor and both sounded superb. IMHO I think the Mahogany works best because Taylors are usually bright but the Mahogany warms it up a bit...........Just saying |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 02:28:15 AM
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| But I thought a guitar has to be played over and over and over for it to develop the swell sound it is capable of. |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 07:42:25 AM
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All Koa is a beautiful looking instrument. I just finished building an all koa uke, but I haven't strung it up (should do tonight). As a uke is bright with a sharp attack and not much sustain, the traditional use of koa works well, but for a guitar I think that koa is just too stiff and heavy to make a good sound board. In talking to other luthiers, they have said that you need to really modify the way that the top is thinned and braced when using something like koa for the top. They really look fantastic, but I am not surprised that the tone suffers. There is a reason why most sound boards are conifers rather than hardwoods.
Aloha |
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 08:47:27 AM
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| Mahalo for the input & education on tone woods Allen. No wonder I've seen guitars with koa back & sides then what looks like spruce or cedar tops. I always thought why hide that beautiful koa on the back & sides where no one can see it then have a plain looking soundboard. Now I know |
Hoof Hearted?...Was it you Stu Pedaso? |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2012 : 10:00:55 AM
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I also think Koa is not the best wood to use for a guitar top. However, just to be clear, my comments were not about Koa topped guitars, it was about every one that I have ever picked up and played regardless of the material used. Damn! This is begining to show the extent of my opinion isn't it! LOL!
Hey, sorry for being so extreme.
I consider this like a public service opinion to my fellow TP'ers.
There are plenty of $300-$500 guitars out there that sound pretty good in comparison.
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Bob |
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kihoaluatl
Akahai
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2012 : 10:49:53 AM
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I have a Gibson J45 in all koa that sound great when played hard, it is dull and muted when played softly. I have another guitar (Goodall) about the same size with koa back and sides but a spruce top and it is very responsive when played softly. I understand the differences in bracing and top thickness etc, but these guitars are similar size bodies by top shelf makers. My other spruce top guitars though different in sound have similar responsiveness to the Goodall. As far as the sound getting better with age, it is a subtle difference as age and playing alone will not make an average guitar sound great.
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 05:37:03 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wcerto
But I thought a guitar has to be played over and over and over for it to develop the swell sound it is capable of.
Auntie Wanda:
I wouldn't put much stock in the age of an instrument. There was a study conducted recently with several experienced violinists and a collection of both old and fairly new violins. Each violinist played every one of the instruments blindfolded and was asked for their comments on the tone and percieved age of each instrument. When all the results were tallied it turned out that ther was no meaningful correlation between instrument age and the players' perception of its age. In one case a very experienced player sang the praises of an "obviously old" violin which was relatively new. The study also revealed that the experience level of the players didn't matter much either. The old hands weren't any better at pegging age than the newcomers.
If this is true of violins, I suspect it's true of guitars as well. If a bunch of experienced players can't tell the difference blindfolded, I doubt if I ever could.
Keep in mind that these were blindfolded tests. If someone hands me a vintage Martin and tells me it was owned by Bill Monroe or a veteran 12 string owned by Gabby I will immediately impute all kinds of magical qualities to its sound. It's hard to separate out our perception of an instrument's sound from its story and history.
Aloha. |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 2:26:29 PM
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| Regardless of my opinion of all koa steel strings, I would pay a whole lot to have John Keawe's koa guitar. Maybe it's the guy playing that makes a difference? |
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haolebrownie
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 2:36:14 PM
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My 2 cents on stringed instruments opening up (so feel free to ignore): Here is a really good article about instruments opening up. While age isn't necessarily directly related to opening up, most luthiers and players agree that sound does change over time with playing. "Softer" woods open up much faster than "harder" woods. It doesn't really continue at the same rate forever (a 15 year old guitar isn't going to sound significantly different 5 years later, but a brand new guitar will likely sound different even a year later) so take that for what you will. I guess what I'm trying to say is that age does play some role, so it should be given *some* stock.
http://www.acguitar.com/article/default.aspx?articleid=24089 |
Kī Hōʻalu and ʻUkulele Soul |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2012 : 3:14:45 PM
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Joe:
Interesting article. I hadn't seen it. Thanks for passing it along.
Regards. |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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haolebrownie
Aloha
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2012 : 1:21:17 PM
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| No problem Terry. I'm glad it was worth the read. |
Kī Hōʻalu and ʻUkulele Soul |
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Taylor Classical (nylon)
