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DennisC
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2012 : 07:08:38 AM
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I played around a bit with a baritone guitar and really liked the lower overall tone. Baritones are tuned B to B; 2 1/2 steps below standard guitar tuning. Seems like a baritone would sound great for much slack key but I haven't heard anything of baritones in slack key playing. I'm just curious what the opinions are.
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 08:25:28 AM
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| Don't know about slack key, but Pat Metheny has put a baritone guitar to good use on a couple of his recent solo-guitar albums, "One Quiet Night" & "What's It All About." |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 09:44:09 AM
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Doug McMaster on Kauai plays a Goodall baritone for slack key almost exclusively. As I recall, he mostly plays it in F Wahine tuning, but other tunings too. It has been a while since we have been to the island to see him and his wife Sandy play. The Friday and Monday shows in Hanalei are highly recommended BTW.
I have been pondering a bartone guitar too. The Taylor baritones are underwhelming acosutically, especially at a $3000 price point. They seem to sound great plugged in. |
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DennisC
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2012 : 5:57:08 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Earl
The Taylor baritones are underwhelming acosutically, especially at a $3000 price point. They seem to sound great plugged in.
I'm thinking of the new Alvarez baritone that goes for under $400. It gets good reviews and Alvarez makes some good guitars in that range. None of the local shops have it yet though. I played the Alvarez-Yairi baritone that costs around $1500; it sounded great and played well. I've read that a baritone needs a 28" scale or it won't project; the Taylor is 27" and the Alv is 27 3/4". |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 06:16:03 AM
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I'm not sure how scale length relates to projection, Dennis. It does help determine intonation and controls the string tension. I have not been able to play either Alvarez baritone. Larivee made a limited run of $1700 baritones last year, but they were pretty much sold out by the time I discovered them. Nothing this year that I know of.
For me neck width is a big deal. I need it to be 1-3/4" to feel right, and that probably becomes even more important when using the bigger diameter strings. The $1500 Alvarez is 1-11/16" neck width as I recall. I would have to actually play it to see if there is an issue.
Last August I went to the Headlsburg Guitar Festival with the specific goal of seeing baritones. I saw several and they were all quite nice, but the *least* expensive was $6500. Granted I was at a luthier-built guitar show, but that's a bit rich.
My Seagull dreadnought is currently wwearing much heavier strings (0.060" - 0.016") as a trial and is tuned down to B-B. The intonation suffers quite a bit on certain strings, but the acosutic tone easily beats those expensive Taylors. I actually picked up an extra used Seagull with the idea of routing out the slot to put in a double-wide saddle and compensating for the heavier strings. It won't be perfect, but there is some potential there. I should just go ahead with the experiment.
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 07:28:29 AM
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My buddy Tsuneyuki "Tony" Yamamoto is something of a baritone specialist. He can't match Alvarez on price, but he can do better than many custom luthiers. Here's a look at his models including a multi-scale baritone: http://yamamotoguitar.com/models.htm
Ledward is playing my Yamamoto OMY in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ungc5L_eAY
Tony builds his bari guitars with a Manzer wedge, an approach pioneered by luthier Linda Manzer. The wedge construction gives a very deep body at the lap side, but narrows to a more manageable depth under the arm - 5" to 3.5" is the usual arrangement. The result is a large body volume for improved bass resonance while providing comfortable ergonomics for the player.
Here's my buddy Doug Young playing a Yamamoto 7 string baritone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ-YwXeUgJE
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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cyril
Lokahi
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 08:14:27 AM
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| Aloha, I have an Ovation I tune to B Flat. Like a tenor or baratone ukulele, I also use heavy gauge strings instead of medium. I like to play it in A tuning. Sounds very good. |
Cyril Pahinui
cyril.cyrilpahinui.com |
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DennisC
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 08:28:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Earl
I'm not sure how scale length relates to projection, Dennis. It does help determine intonation and controls the string tension.
My scale comment is just a data point from my googling of info on baritones; but it does align with your comment on the Taylor, which has a 27" scale. I'm not enough of a steel-string guitar techie to comment on the physics. |
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DennisC
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 08:32:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by cyril
Aloha, I have an Ovation I tune to B Flat. Like a tenor or baratone ukulele, I also use heavy gauge strings instead of medium. I like to play it in A tuning. Sounds very good.
It's interesting how some guitars can tune down considerably and others don't seem to like it. I have a little Taylor GC Mini with a short (23.5) scale and it plays quite nicely in Taro Patch with the factory med. ga. strings, though the salesman was doubtful it would handle it without buzzing badly. |
Edited by - DennisC on 07/10/2012 08:35:14 AM |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
524 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 6:07:12 PM
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Fran, thanks for the point out. Interesting that Tony uses a zero fret. And my big paws would like the 1-7/8" neck width.
It happens that I will be heading for the Bay Area next month. I might have to make an appointment and try Tony's baritone.
As for the Taylor baritone, I cannot understand why they built it on the GS body, instead of the larger jumbo. When pursuing the lower frequencies, volume is very important. I think that is why the Taylor baritone is acoustically anemic, especially the lowest B string. I had the several opportunities to play their eight-string baritone. Even my friend who is hard of hearing thought that it was lacking something in the low's. There was a jumbo 315ce sitting nearby. Grabbing it, I tuned the two lowest strings down to match the baritone. The jumbo body clearly sounded better, even with standard scale length and regular medium gauge strings.
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westernmost
Aloha
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 6:07:28 PM
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| I used a Tacoma baritone tuned to open D on my "Kimo Style" CD. If you want to hear an excellent instrument, check out the sound the Linda Manzer baritone guitar as used by Pat Metheny on his CD, "One Quiet Night" |
Kimo |
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DennisC
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2012 : 8:19:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Fran Guidry
My buddy Tsuneyuki "Tony" Yamamoto is something of a baritone specialist. He can't match Alvarez on price, but he can do better than many custom luthiers. Here's a look at his models including a multi-scale baritone: http://yamamotoguitar.com/models.htm
Fran
Gorgeous instrument, but Mr Yamamoto would have to offer a heckuva senior discount for me! I'm about 90% decided to snag the low cost Alvarez to play around with. I found one at an Indiana dealer for $329 and free shipping! |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2169 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 4:26:59 PM
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| Shoots! I've been thinking about a baritone to play for acoustic gigs with the polka band. The alternatives: bajo sexto (bass 12, EADGCF- low to high) or a bajo quinto (bass 10, ADGCF). Bajos have heavy strings but a great back-up sound in the "polka" context (AJUA!). Ovation makes a baritone for about $600. Pardon my cross culturalness. |
Edited by - thumbstruck on 07/11/2012 4:28:20 PM |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2012 : 6:54:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by westernmost
If you want to hear an excellent instrument, check out the sound the Linda Manzer baritone guitar as used by Pat Metheny on his CD, "One Quiet Night"
Yeah, that's the one I was talking about; he also used it on "What's It All About." Linda was Jean Larrivee's protege, and she makes some wonderful instruments. She has built several for Metheny (including the bizarrely structured "Pikasso"). A friend of mine in Canada got one of her "Cowpoke" steel-string cutaways years ago and absolutely loves it (in fact, he's quoted on the page for that model, http://www.manzer.com/guitars/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=21&Itemid=20). |
Edited by - Retro on 07/11/2012 6:55:21 PM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2012 : 03:43:23 AM
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A blast from the past...anyone remember myspace! Probably not LOL
Bill Benzel has some recordings using a baritone in slack style. Not all in baritone but I think you can tell by listening.
http://www.myspace.com/billbenzel |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 07/12/2012 03:45:33 AM |
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DennisC
Aloha
USA
27 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2012 : 12:00:53 PM
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| Well, I just placed my order for the Alvarez and should have it in a week. So a baritone tuned for Taro Patch tabs will be A-D-A-D-F#-A? |
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Baritone guitars?
