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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
 Posted - 04/12/2013 : 07:54:02 AM
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Aloha,
Some time back I stumbled upon and excellent rendition of Uncle Leonard Kwan's Old Mauna Loa played on a Yamaha 12 string by Kaaeamoku on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMP_YOKp6RA
I very rarely run across people playing anything by Uncle Leonard Kwan other than Opihi Moe Moe, so this video really caught my attention. The music was so good that it gave me GAS, and I ended up with a beat up old Yamaha 12 string. Now that it is restrung and the pick guard is glued back down, I'm finding that I'm having a devil of a time both fretting and picking on this guitar without muting strings that should be left ringing. This critter has a 1 7/8" wide nut which I find far less forgiving than the 2" nut on my old classical guitar. Is it reasonably safe to assume that the necessary accuracy will come with time and practice? Do any of you 12 sting players have any advice that can help this novice improve more quickly?
I asked that the guitar be set up to play Taropatch, so that I could start working on the material from Uncle Ozzie Kotani's book, but I was surprised that the luthier chose to put the wire wound high G string (DGDGBD) closer to the higher pitched D string rather than the lower pitched D string. With the smaller diameter unwound steel string closer to the low D string it easier to play this set of G strings with a downstroke with my thumb, but more difficult to play it with an upstroke with a finger. Is this the way that a 12 string is typically strung to play slack key, or is the wire wound high G string usually placed closest to the lower pitched D string?
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sirduke58
`Olu`olu
USA
993 Posts |
Posted - 04/12/2013 : 8:58:12 PM
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Aloha Mike
Accuracy will come with repetition. To me it's like you gotta throw caution to the wind & just pluck assertively. You really gotta trust your string relationship & dig into it plucking the octave string also. You'll be surprised how quickly you'll start to play cleaner & cleaner.
Dunno why your guitar tech strung your high G with the octave string underneath. My question would be "Is this guitar tech familiar enough with slack key to suggest this method of stringing?" I totally agree with you that the high G being strung like it is makes it easier for a down stroke than up stroke. Someone in the "know" once told me that Gabby used to remove the octave strings on his 3 bass strings. I'm assuming it made it easier to get a consistently clean bass note.
Going from a nylon string with a 2" nut to a 12 string steel with a 1 7/8" nut is definitely not an easy transition. You'll eventually get comfortable with the string spacing. The difficult part will be the increased fretting pressure your right hand will have to supply to get clean notes. I really don't know if the best set up can make a 12 string's action comfortable to play. Can I make a suggestion to you? Why not tune it a full step down to F Taropatch? There's a lot of positive aspects about tuning down. Much better playability for one. It's very useful at kanikapilas to stay with ukulele players who love to play in the dreaded key of F which a lot of us slackers despise Pretty sure your Yamaha 12 clears 14 frets from the body so if you tune to F Taropatch & capo the 2nd fret to G Taropatch you'll still clear 12 frets like you do on the nylon. I like to play my 12 string Ovation in Gabby's favorite C6th Mauna Loa but I tune it a full step down to Bb & capo to the C6th. Gabby also played many songs in Bb too so I'm tuned to follow.
Hope there's a tip or two here that can help
 Duke
Here's Leonard Kwan's Opihi Moemoe on a 12 stringer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFEwbssP934 |
Edited by - sirduke58 on 04/13/2013 7:50:19 PM |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2168 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2013 : 04:31:31 AM
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Back when I had a 12string, I tuned down, like Duke. PRACTICE begets familiarity. Like Slipry1 says: "The more you do it, the better you get at it."
The tech maybe made a mistake stringing your ax for the little G. |
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 04/13/2013 : 1:28:59 PM
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Michael:
I don't have much to ofer in the way of 12 string knowledge or advice on practice but one thing is clear: You play beautifully!! That was really sweet. I'm glad it's up there for all to hear.
Mahalo. |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2013 : 07:34:06 AM
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Aloha Terry, thumbstruck, Sir Duke,
Terry, I'm sorry to give you the incorrect impression that it was me playing Old Mauna Loa in that video. To my haole ears Kaaeamoku's rendition of Old Mauna Loa sounds even better than Uncle Leonard Kwan's, and I would be ecstatic if I could ever play that mele half as well as Kaaeamoku. Check out his other videos. They are very impressive and I hope that he adds a few more soon.
Sir Duke and thumbstruck, thank you for the advice that practice will eventually clean up the sound. Kaaeamoku made that mele sound so good, and look so easy, that I just didn't anticipate the technical skill required. I will give F Taropatch a try, though my problem seems to be much more a problem of aim rather than pressure. I doubt that the tech that I took the 12 string to had much familiarity with slack key music, but I'm certain that he did a much better job of gluing the pick guard back in place than I ever would have. Thank you for letting me know how the little G string should be strung for Taropatch. I thought that the strings should be reversed, but I really didn't know.
Take it easy.
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TerryLiberty
Lokahi
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2013 : 08:31:42 AM
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Oops!
My incomplete reading of your post. I'd love to hear your rendition someday.
Happy practicing! |
Terry
Olympia, WA
Forever a haumana |
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Earl
`Olu`olu
USA
523 Posts |
Posted - 04/14/2013 : 5:58:49 PM
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Hopefully I have understood your post correctly.
The normal set up for 12 string is to put the wound G string lower / closer to the ground, with the unwound octave of the pair higher / closer to the ceiling. That works fine for strumming and flatpicking techniques, which most often hit the string pair from above on a downstroke.
As someone who is primarily a fingerpicker, I have my 12 string set up the way you described it - with the wound string above the unwound string. The reason is simple. I normally play the third string pair (G's) with a finger, not the thumb. The arced upstroke of my finger can readily hit both strings that way, and with fairly even force. With the wound string down closer to the floor (and it most often sits slightly higher in the nut than its octave) my finger stroke only hits the wound string, and usually misses the octave string entirely -- unless I really change my normal picking technique. It sounds like something is missing when that happens, because something is. One pair of strings does not have its octave playing along.
Since ki 'hoalu is mostly a fingerpicked style, I would say that your luthier got it right, even if accidentally.
As for the 1-7/8" nut width, my large hands tend to like necks wider than standard for steel strings. 1-3/4" is OK but is the narrowest neck width that I like to use. I have gone as far as putting a new nut with only six strings on a 12-string guitar, just to get a wider neck and wider string spacing. (FWIW, that experiment was mostly a success, but I eventually converted that guitar back to a standard 12 string with its original nut).
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2013 : 09:03:55 AM
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Another thing that you get when playing the 12-string is much better control and tone when playing 6-string. The extra finger strength needed for clean 12-string playing will come in handy for all your future playing
As far as the string set up goes, I have played 12-string for MANY years and never noticed until you guys metnioned it that on most fingerpicked songs the high G does not sound very loudly when strung in the "normal" fashion, where it is the first of the pair to be hit by the thumb! IN fact, the ONLY song I know that sounds th high G in that configuration is Kottke's Crow River Waltz, where the whole melody is sounded by the THUMB playing the high G first. So, I guess I'l experiment with reversing the G strings. I remember hearing George Kahumoku play the 12 string and wondering where he got that high ringing soound; it never occured to me he might hae the strings reversed. Anybody know how George strings his guitar? |
Karl
Frozen North |
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12 String Blues
