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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
 Posted - 09/10/2007 : 11:52:44 AM
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After reading Reid's excellent post on C Mauna Loa
http://www.taropatch.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5682
I decided I am one of those "analytical learners" and could benefit from some basic music theory as it relates to the guitar. I have looked at several nice books on music theory and guitars but before I go out and get one, I thought that I would check with all the knowledgable people here to see if there is a book that deals more specifically with the topics of key (major, minor etc), chord progression, scales etc as they relate to the alternate tunings of Ki'hoalu.
Anybody have a recommendation?
Dave
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 12:26:31 PM
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Basic Music Theory:
Here is an old book I partially learned from at University while I was an Engineering Student. This book was used for a Music 101 class taught to non-musicians by the school of Music. Students already in the music school were expected to be beyond this level.
An Introduction to Musical Understanding and Musicianship by Adams, Ethel G
http://www.biblio.com/details.php?dcx=29197670&aid=frg
Also "The Guitar Players Handbook" by Ralph Denyer has some useful theory.
The basic theory of western music is the same for any tuning.
However, with open tunings you get the added sympathetic vibrations of the non-played strings which vibrate in the same key as the open-tuning thereby adding a "halo" of extra reverberation to what is being played. And, of course, the fingering change with altered tunings, making some chords easier and others much harder. These thing s, in turn, might change some considerations for what harmonic progressions are good for a given tuning, but I do not know of a book that deals exclusively with these issues.\
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 09/10/2007 12:30:03 PM |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 2:43:46 PM
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I am one of the lucky students that have seen Peter Medeiros' new Slack Key Books (last I heard, they were in peer review). I purchased draft versions of them while taking private lessons in May. You may be able to contact Peter and ask him the current status -- he often posts on Taropatch.
IMHO, Peter has done more to help me understand what makes Slack Key --> Ki Ho'alu. It has taken me a few months to let it sink in. What he writes and explains appears deceptively simple; I know he planned it that way. But it is chock full of real information and music. In particular, how to relate tunings, how to improvise, and how to play and sing at the same time.
Mahalo Nui, Peter!
(Now if only I could play 'Ulili E like he does) |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 3:20:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mika ele
You may be able to contact Peter and ask him the current status -- he often posts on Taropatch.
I will send him an email through tp.
Great information. Thank you.
Dave |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 02:07:53 AM
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The problem with music theory (currently) is that it isn't really a theory. It isn't predictive and it presents no hypotheses that can be falsified. In addition, it is culturally dependent. Lots of people contort math to deal with it (starting with Pythagoras), but that math is simply a complication of what "music theory", in the "Western" context is: a bunch of ambiguous definitions (there are 3 for the word "tone") funny names for things (Ionian = major) and rules (Circle of 5ths, arithmetic for intervals of notes that don't include zero (0)) that all have evolved over the last few thousand years in Europe. So, basically, you just have to memorize a lot of stuff, translate a lot of stuff into words you can understand, and ignore a lot of stuff. I have never read a book intended for musician students that did not just take all this glob of stuff as givens, received wisdom, and explained very little.
You can read things like:
http://www.math.ku.edu/~mitchell/mm/mathmusic.html
but, you will find your eyes glazing over. The task is like picking the raisins out of rice pudding: skip the math lingo and try to identify the stuff that translates the musicians stuff into stuff that makes sense to you and is useful. Yeah, stuff.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 09/11/2007 02:08:21 AM |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 06:32:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
try to identify the stuff that translates the musicians stuff into stuff that makes sense to you and is useful. Yeah, stuff.
...Reid
Reid
When I read your post on C Mauna Loa (and I went back and read the one on Attas C and searched in vain for the referenced one on Taropatch) I could tell that there was some very "useful stuff" in there but I do not have even the basic terms down well enough to make it useful for me. for instance this quote from your article "Since the 6ths are high, the 3rds are slightly lower and on the 2nd and 3rd
strings. They are the same notes as the 3rds on the *same* strings in Open
G, but the fingering is similar to the 6ths in Open G" made just enough sense to me to make me realize I needed some more basics.
So I am starting to look for rice pudding that has a lot of raisins in it so I can pick them out more easily.
I really appreciate your suggestions on this. I realize it will not be quick but it can't be any slower than I am at just stumbling through blindly. Plus it gives me something to do when I don't have my guitar with me.
Dave
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 10:16:24 AM
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While not specific to slack key (or even guitar), this is a great resource for learning basic music theory:
http://www.musictheory.halifax.ns.ca
It includes video lessons along with printed material and the guy teaching it is corny enough to be entertaining while still knowing what he's talking about. I highly recommend it. Also worth checking out:
http://www.amazon.com/Edlys-Music-Theory-Practical-People/dp/0966161602 |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 09/11/2007 12:32:35 PM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2007 : 10:25:10 AM
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Dave - You Go! Understanding weird stuff never hurt anyone. About 3rds and 6ths, etc. just remember that the guys who thought these terms up didn't know about 0. So, counting from G (most do C, but we do G here more often), you count the origin (G) as 1, A=2, B=3. So B is a 3rd of G. Invert it: B=1, C=2, D=3, E=4, F#=5, G=6. So, if you pick a low B and a high G (frets 4 and 5 on strings 3 and 1 in Open G) you get a parallel 6th. It is an important one since you usually end up a 6th run there. So, there is a magic number 9. (Add 3 and 6, 4 and 5, 1 and 8 (octave) etc.) Invert the notes, listen how they sound. There are all sorts of spooky stuff like that because of the funny definitions, cyclicity of note names and no zero origin in counting.
Anyway, good luck,and it ain't as spooky as quantum theory (where future effects past) - we couldn't even discuss that.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 09/11/2007 10:26:01 AM |
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Nohea
Aloha
USA
2 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 4:10:12 PM
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Try Music Theory for the Skeptical Guitarist by Bruce Emery. Naturally, it's based on concert tuning. Still, it deciphers the gobbledygook. Bruce Emery has a whole "Skeptical Guitarist" series, available on his website.
Nohea |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2007 : 4:20:38 PM
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| I first learned theory as it applied to keyboard (both accordion and piano.) Decades later I picked up the guitar and I learned a lot from the Skeptical Guitarist series. |
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music theory and slacked keys
