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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
 Posted - 12/18/2007 : 1:29:22 PM
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Once again I'm seeing folks get all worked up about traveling with their guitars. So I thought: let's really get some answers. Some folks are so concerned that they buy cheap *ss guitars to travel with, some rely on tiny travel guitars, some scam on how to get the guitar in the cabin... and some folks pack 'em up properly and relax.
I have said it before, and I'll say it again: unless you picked up your guitar directly from the luthier, chances it rode in a airplane's cargo hold to get to the store. Go ahead and fret all you want, but a properly packed guitar will survive the trip just fine. I'd much rather play a guitar that turns me on when I reach my destination, but hey, I'm like that...
But, just for ducks, lets get it all out in the open: I'd really like to know, once and for all, how many TaroPatch readers have experienced damage to a properly case guitar on an airline.
I say properly cased, cuz when I was 19 I checked an acoustic through in a canvas gig bag. Guess what? It got broke. Gee.
Personally, I've flown my instruments for over 30 years. On commercial planes. On bush planes. On private planes. To Europe, Canada, and all over North America. In flight cases... and regular hard cases. I've gate checked maybe 5% of the time, the rest went in the hold. So we are talking hundreds of flights. In '86 two buds and I did the Fly Till You Die Tour: 21 days of unlimited mileage; flying two or three legs every single day. Each of us checked our axes.
I have had some scary moments in those 30 years, including two destroyed SKB cases, but zip damage to my instruments. Currently I use a Calton flight case, as does Keola Beamer, and many other pros. There are other alternatives, as well, including Bruce Lamb's amazing Clam Case.
OK, so let's start hearing those horror stories. Not friend of a friend I heard so and so stories, personal experience. (John McCutcheon's iconic forklift accident happened some 25 years ago, tho' the story gets repeated as if it happens every year...)
I want details: how was it packed? How many times have you flown with it? What was the damage? If it was lost, how long did it take to get it back (my record is two days). If it was damaged, was it repairable? And (the real issue) did the world end?
Anecdotally, I seem to remember Lawrence had a problem at some point in the past... Who else? There are quite a few professional musicians on this forum, I'd like to hear from you, too.
And, while we are at it, let's hear from everyone who hasn't had problems... I'm curious about the real percentage risk of damage per number of flights. Which I am guessing is vanishingly small. But, if it isn't, wouldn't it be good to know that, too?
Forewarned is fore armed (and if you had four arms you could play slack key and `ukulele at the same time!)
Mark
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 1:39:50 PM
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I don't have a Calton (or a Lamb), but I have a case recommended by my luthier (sorry, I forget the brand). Most damage so far on multiple flights is a few scuff marks (on the case, not the guitar).
Recall a story by Keola (I think) of looking out the windows at an airport and seeing one of his guitars dropped from the hold of the plane all the way to the tarmac. No damage, except to his nerves.
I have heard stories of guitars hopelessly mangled. But, as Mark says...were they properly cased? |
Puna |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 1:45:48 PM
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Well, I had a Seagull broken twice in an SKB case. Both times I was forced to gate check it because they did not want it in the cabin. At least one of those times I had NOT detensioned the strings. Had a guitar broken a third time where they punctured the case and the guitar. These statistics are for about 50 flights total. I.E.: a 6% breakage rate.
Now I fly with Calton case checked as baggage, with guitar detuned down about an octave and extra foam above and below the head (wedging the head in place). No breaks with this setup, but only about 12 flights so far.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 1:52:33 PM
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I have transported my Taylors in the factory cases to Hawai'i and across the US several times. They have never sustained any damage. I properly prepare the guitars for travel -- slack the strings and pack around the neck and headstock to prevent "head snap" if the case is dropped or roughly handled. I also "tie-off" the cases with my old Laser main-sheet just in case the case latches come unlatched during handling. My cases are scuffed but the guitars are fine. I almost feel the "Fragile" stickers are like painting a big "L" on your forehead, too -- I doubt a baggage handler has never seen a guitar case. At one airport, LAX (after gate checking the guitar in Kona) they couldn't find my guitar for a few hours -- but the airline tracked it down and belatedly handed it to me unharmed.
My ukuleles have hard cases and fit in the overhead anyway -- so no damage. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 1:54:27 PM
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I travel with my Rainsong about 2 - 3 times a year. It's packed in its molded (skb) case and packed inside a Bruce Lamb clam. The clam case has lasted about 4 or 5 years and will probable last another 3, at least. I always check it as regular baggage. Oh, I also pad the headstock with newspaper, but I don't detune the strings.
I've had no damage to my guitar or the case (other than the expected scuffs on the case). It was "lost" by Hawaiian Air once. Actually it had been left behind in San Diego. I got it back the next day. |
Dusty |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 2:25:34 PM
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Gosh time flies. My last real world guitar travelling experience dates back to 2002 -- AMC '02.
My strategy was to try getting my guitar into the cabin or else gate check it. I am not sure if it's much tougher to do that now post-Sept 11. One time I brought two guitars into the cabin. It really depended on how full the flight was and the flight attendants' concern about space in the overhead compartments. The newer Continental planes that I have been on have much smaller overheads so I don't think I could fit a guitar up there now. When I gate checked, I had no problems. Never had to check it all the way through luggage. No damage, no problems but I have very few times when I travelled with my guitar.
When I do travel, I pack the headstock with newspaper or t-shirts/socks. Some say slack the strings, some say don't. So sometimes, I did and other times -- I forgot.
Mark - do you think one of those Taylor black, molded cases are flight worthy? Or does flying require something more sturdy? |
Andy |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 5:04:58 PM
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I totally agree with Mark. In all my music camps and travels to Hawai`i and elsewhere, I haven't had a problem in over ten years. I've written this before on other TP posts, but here it is again. I take the good case that my instruments came with; detune the guitar a little, brace the headstock with t-shirts (what else do you need in Hawai`i?); stuff any loose areas with more articles of clothing; then I put the case inside a padded case cover. My case cover happens to have a couple d-rings with a shoulder strap that I can attach. It also has a short zipper that allows access to the case handle. Just before check in, I take the shoulder strap and wrap it tightly around the case cover and attach it back to the d-rings (it makes a tight spiral aroung the case). Then I stuff the handle back inside the cover. This forces the baggage handlers to manually pick up the guitar. They no longer have a purchase that they can sling the guitar with. That's how they get broken. Also, as much as I wouldn't want to lose a good instrument, that's what insurance is for.
my $.02 worth
dog |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 12/18/2007 5:06:08 PM |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 6:21:46 PM
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I hate to fly. I'm a cello-sized person stuffed into a violin sized seat. I never flew with my guitar, mostly due to the need for sufficent clothing. Nui size clothes take up more luggage space, and I needed all my luggage allowances for clothing. I took a dulcimer to Hawaii last spring, it fit the overheads just fine.I don't think I'd want the cardboard case in with the luggage. I did have my guitar hit by a golf car once. The molded SKB case sustained some damage, I was knocked out of my lawn chair, and the chair(wooden) required repairs, But the guitar was un damaged.The ten-year-old at the wheel of the golf car was not quite the driver he thought he was.
Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 03:50:39 AM
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Sarah and I have flown with a guitar about 15 times: all long haul. First we did the Frank Ford trick, which is putting the guitar in its case in its shipping box with styrofoam peanuts - braced the headstock, as most other people do, with T-shirts and socks, slacked the strings. Did that once, bulky but no problem.
Then we got Caltons (~550$) in white and light grey (to minimize heat damage). Did the standard internal headstock packing - the Caltons are so tight there is NO chance for internal collisions. Unlocked after 9/11 and wrapped with fiber tape at the airport, by the airline employees, after opening and sniffing for explosives. Checked as baggage to Hawai`i, France and I don't remember where else. The case was run over by a baggage hauler tug - the tread marks are still on it (United Airlines). No damage. We saw it dropped off the end of the baggage trailer on the Mainland and in France CDG; and topple off the baggage carousel feed belt twice - once at OGG. Should have come out the special baggage door, but didn't. Drops and tumbles of 2-3 feet with loud noises. No damage except for a chip off the fiberglass on an edge. Thrown onto the loading conveyor. It sat in the 90 deg. sun for 2 hours on the apron at HNL - I watched it cook. No damage. It sat for a couple hours in a baggage hauler at CDG during an ice storm while I watched it from the plane, waiting for deicing. No damage. The French bashed it into something and the case got more rubber skid marks. No damage. The Caltons are a bit funky on the outside, but not bad. Lots of French Securite tape. Gives them character.
The only worry is to figure out where and when the guitar(s) are going to come out in the baggage pickup area. And, once, we were interrogated by a French soldier with a French mouse-gun at Montpellier about importing a guitar for resale. I think she wanted it.
Oh yeah - the guitars were 2 Goodalls and 2 McCollums, all wonderful guitars. *Replacement* value about $6-8K each. No insurance.
...Reid |
Edited by - Reid on 12/19/2007 04:00:07 AM |
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hwnmusiclives
`Olu`olu
USA
580 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 04:33:06 AM
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I have personally never had a problem. But I also believe that anything is possible and that given how much luggage they handle, the baggage handlers are generally not concerned with any individual piece.
I have travelled 5,000 miles at a time with one or another of my Alvarez-Yairi acoustics, a Guild DC-10, a Breedlove classical, and a 1948 Fender Dual Professional steel guitar (45 pounds with legs and case). None damaged. The worst that ever happened was that the faux leather on an SKB case got "skinned" by the baggage handling machinery - a 9" long by 3" wide strip ripped off and left dangling. An easy repair and it gave the case much needed character.
But the real testament to hard shell cases is the Gibson Les Paul. They should all be made to those standards. I played a local gig once and after unpacking all my gear, I couldn't find the guitar. Bandmembers all around, so it couldn't have been stolen. But it was nowhere to be found. I said, "Don't worry. It's somewhere. Maybe someone carried it in as a favor." So, having parked close to a door to unload, I started the car to park it in the lot and as I backed up, the car was more unresponsive than usual and I noticed a horrifying scraping noise against the pavement beneath me. I dragged the Les Paul about 50 feet with my Subaru Forester. It had slid under the car out of anyone's site. Not a scratch.
I feel really fortunate to never have experienced agony over an instrument damaged in transit. That being said, the story that sticks in my head is the fabled tale of Robert Cazimero's trademark snow white upright bass being lost by an airline - never to be recovered. I don't know how you lose something that big, but I chalk that up to theft. Somebody really wanted that bass.
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Join me for the history of Hawaiian music and its musicians at Ho`olohe Hou at www.hoolohehou.org. |
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Pua Kai
Ha`aha`a
USA
1007 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 05:27:44 AM
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I always carry my guitar on and put it in the overhead. It's in a soft case and I've had no trouble - no hiding it, no questions about it. One big reason I do this is that I also take dive gear and if checked, it would be my 3rd bag. This last trip, going over was a gal carrying a bass, quite a bit larger than my guitar, and coming back was a guy with a Taylor, also larger than mine. All are in soft cases.
I doubt there is any trouble going through the security check with guitars that are checked, but my friend who has a high end competition bicycle in a very special case and pays extra for the privilege of flying with it has had it opened by the TSA folks, not repacked properly and damaged in the ensuing handling. Proper packing these days doesn't mean it'll stay properly packed. Putting it in a case where it fits and where TSA can't make a mistake putting it back would be good. Don't depend on any of your padding remaining in place.
And just a side note: there was a lot of slack key played in both the airports in Kona and Honolulu - very nice! |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 06:20:58 AM
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I've got a Calton for my mandolin. They make them about 190 miles away from me, and I rang them up, Mr Calton took the measurements, I told him what I wanted in terms of straps etc., and they made it up and sent it me. I used to carry my mandolin as hand luggage, figuring it was safer, and anyway it's not very big.
However, in 2003 I had a motorcycle crash whilst carrying the mandolin on my back. I broke my collarbone and was in a sling for 6 weeks. The mandolin didn't even go out of tune. Since then, I'm quite happy for the mandolin to go in the hold. I've not had any problem with it.
Guitarwise, I always put it in the hold. I have a Hiscox liteflite, which I think are the best cases. Perhaps not as bulletproof as a Calton, but not as heavy to carry. I don't slacken the strings, (Larrivee, the builders, recommend not to), I don't pack socks round it, I just put it in the case like normal. I have never had any problems doing this. Every time I land anywhere the first thing I do is open the case and give it a quick strum. It's invariably been fine. This is transatlantic as well as European flights. I have been through eight or nine American airports (and several European ones) in this fashion, and never had a problem.
I think Mark's hit the nail on the head here - in the old days, cases were made out of plywood, or cardboard or something, and mishaps happened. But these days, good cases are readily available. If they can handle a motorbike crash, they'll be OK on a carousel, believe me. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 06:40:18 AM
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| I had a Rainsong case smashed by United on a trip to Hawaii, but the guitar was untouched. Hawaiian Air seems to have it right, at least from and to San Diego. Hand delivered to the baggage area. I have a Calton and I always wrap it with velcro straps in case the latches get hozed. If I didn't have a Calton, I'd get one of Bruce Lamb's Clams. His newer ones are very sleek and lighter with detachable wheels. Cetrtainly worth the price. As far as overhead storage, I recently carried a baby Martin (soft case) on a plane that had tiny overheads; a standard sized guitar woul not have fit. I don't remember where I was going, but it was on the mainland. With the introduction of commuter jets (Canadair, et al) for many short and medium haul jumps, this is a problem for guitars in the cabin. They won't fit. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 06:51:41 AM
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| Everyone knows you can't fly with your guitar...its aerodynamics are terrible. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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jlsulle
Lokahi
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 06:56:31 AM
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| I fly at least three times a year and use a Calton case with the usual packing around the headstock. I mostly fly Aloha and always gate check the guitar which is returned to me immediately as I leave the plane. I have never had any damage and hardly a scuff. My most recent flight was on ATA and they actually invited me to bring the guitar on board (even in the Calton case), go figure. Jerry |
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Larry Goldstein
Lokahi
267 Posts |
Posted - 12/19/2007 : 07:40:21 AM
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Yes, how you pack can depend on the circumstances. I fly a Dash 8 or slightly larger aircraft about 20 times a year with my guitar. It’s packed in the original HSC with peanuts under the headstock and then in a custom Colorado Case soft case. It gets gate checked and I’ve never had any problems. (I can guarantee it will get inspected inside and out if the footstand is in there too).
When flying larger aircraft, about 10 times a year, I check the guitar as baggage, which is in a Lamb Clam. Never had a problem.
Larry |
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Flying with Yer Guitar-- the real story
