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FROPPE
Akahai
USA
81 Posts |
 Posted - 01/05/2010 : 5:39:48 PM
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Anyone had any experiences with parlour guitars, particularly for slack-key (DGDGBD) and/or Celtic tunings (DADGAD)? My guitar store had a nice little Larrivee that I really liked; but, it is now gone. Any suggestions? Recommendations?
Mahalo,
Ben Sterling (Froppe)
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2010 : 6:41:54 PM
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Yeah, I have a suggestion. Next time you see a guitar yo really like, buy that sucker on the spot! You can always hide it at a friends until you come up with a good excuse or lie or some other way to sneak it into the house. Watch out for the friend, though; maybe pick a drummer, rather than another GAS picker like yourself :}
Otherwise, almost any acoustic guitar sounds great when you play slack key on it. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 03:56:43 AM
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| My experience is that the shorter scale guitars don't do so well in low tunings, especially down to a C. There just isn't enough tension when tuned down that far. Even a 25" scale can be a bit of a problem. Also, the shorter the scale, the harder to tune. Tuning a short scale guitar to C tuning or even open G can be very difficult. I was travelling for a while with my Goodall Parlor which is not a very small guitar (there is no standard Parlor size) but it is a 25" scale. I could put it in a good gig bag and carry it on. I was able to take just that and my laptop as I have everything I need in Volcano. Very convenient. But I will just bite the bullit from now on and take my Goodall Aloha Standard in it's Calton case and go through the hassle of baggage. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 06:40:14 AM
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| I have a Larrivee parlor and I love it...it's my main practice guitar. So far I haven't had any problems with any open tunings. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 07:29:09 AM
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I have a number of genuine parlors (Martin size 1 or 2 equivalent) as well as an old 0-18 and a Baby Taylor, and the only one that's tweaky to tune is the Baby (approx. 22-5/8" scale). As for flabbiness, even on the Baby, bumping the string gauge compensates for tuning down. If I were to keep a parlor in drop-C tuning, I'd use a heavier sixth string. Most small guitars won't have quite the bass response of a 000 or dread, but that's a different issue. (And my 0-18 has a surprisingly solid bass.) Also note that most of what are called parlor guitars these days are in fact 0 size, and a century and more ago that was standard size. The notion that an 0 or 00 is a small guitar is something that has developed over the last fifty years.
Here's a brief sample of my 0-18 (ignore the playing and listen to the sound):
http://www.cloudnet.com/~rletson/Martin0-18.mp3
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1020 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 08:05:06 AM
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| I got a Seagull Parlor; solid Cedar top, not sure of back and sides (maybe mahogany, maybe laminate. Fits in the overhead in a gig bag and I've taken it a bunch of places including Hawaii. I use Elixir PB nano lights and it holds tune well (Open G, Open D). I think it's a pretty good deal for under $400. It will do until CPatch sells me his Larrivee |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 09:15:45 AM
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I am building guitars and the last two have been parlors with a 25.9inch scale. I have had no problem tuning them to slack tunings, specifically Taro Patch, Keola's C, Drop C, and Leonard's F. Also DADGAD and Dmaj (DADF#AD). As I have said in other posts though, individual guitars will have a preference for certain tunings, and sound much better in some than others, even if there is no actual problem such as buzzing. Marzullo has a beautiful Dennis Lake Po Mahina parlor sized (mango wood) that I can attest to its gorgeous Slack Key sound. This one even has a fantastic bass response, which I have yet to duplicate in my efforts at building. Of course Dennis is a genius....
Aloha,
Allen |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 09:46:09 AM
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| Hey - I love Dennis's stuff as well. His ukes are awesome. My problem with parlors is with shorter scale guitars. 25.9 is a pretty long scale and there would not be a problem of course. As far as using a heavier bass string, yes that would help but I change back and forth to standard tuning and don't want to use a heavy E string. I think the bottom line is scale length. I stand by what I said about a shorter scale. It's hard enough to intonate a guitar with a fixed saddle. The longer the scale the easier to intonate. If you have a parlor with a shorter scale (25" or below) check the tuning with a tuner when you tune down to C. Let me know - I'd be interested. My experience says this can be a problem. I do think larger (dreadnaught or bigger) guitars sound better for slack key but I could be wrong. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 10:20:28 AM
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I have played a Jerry Nolte New York parlor guitar since the 80s.
http://www.eoni.com/~emi/6strings.html
I use it for everything-- and it is fantastic for slack. It's essentially a late 19th, early 20th Century sized guitar-- before everything got so loud they had to build gigantic guitars like dreadnaughts.
I've also had the great pleasure of playing Dennis Lake's "Territorial" model for a year. It is inspired by the kinds of guitars played in Hawaii at the turn of the 20th Century. Look at the old pictures in Ozzie's book and you'll see nothing but small bodied, short scaled guitars.
Both have 25" scale lengths, and both easily handle lower tunings.
So, do parlor guitars sound good for slack? Heck yes, they were what slack key was played on for a couple of generations!
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 10:24:18 AM
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quote:
I change back and forth to standard tuning and don't want to use a heavy E string.
Yes, that would be a problem, though I don't know that it is the fault of the shorter scale. It always takes strings a while to get used to a new pitch--- different instruments like banjo, dulcimer, fiddle also use alternate tunings, and the same thing happens. |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 10:51:27 AM
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My first extended visit to Hawai`i, 2002 or so, I had a Larrivee parlor along as my only guitar. By the time we left Maui I had learned the touch needed to get a sweet full sound from that little guitar in taropatch and drop C.
In my experience it requires some adjustment by the player but the music is in there.
Today, though, if I were buying a traveling guitar or a short scale guitar I'd definitely start by checking the CA Cargo. Unconventional, but with some compelling features.
Fran |
E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Volcano
Akahai
USA
89 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 11:13:27 AM
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This is all very interesting to me. First, within certain parameters I don't believe size relates to volume. I'll put a Collings OM against any J200. In the more normal range of guitar sizes, a larger lower bout generally means a "bassier" sound. When you get to extremes, all bets are off. As far as tuning, physics dictates that the longer the scale, the easier to intonate and thus play in tune better up and down the fingerboard. The shorter scale exaggerates all string movement even with a heavier string. This is why Fran had to use a lighter touch. I can't tell you how many players complained to me about their guitar playing out of tune and when they showed me how they played, they would actually push the strings sharp as they fingered the notes.
Slack key started in the 1800s and the first dreadnaught wasn't even built until 1929 by John Dykehouse (sp) at Martin. It was a 12-fret, Hawaiian-style guitar (lap style). It has long since been refinished and converted. It was built for volume but wasn't any louder that a 000. It did have a very different response however. It was a 12-fret which sounds particularly full. The sound was so pleasing Martin put them into production in the early 30s. In 1936 Perry Bechtel had the first 000 with a 25.4" scale - the OM. So, of course all the early slack key players used smaller than dreadnaught guitars. You will see most players in modern times using larger size guitars. Of course there are exceptions and I'm certainly not saying smaller guitars can't sound great for slack key. The derivation of Parlor guitar came from guitars that were literally played in parlors, generally by ladies. Volume was not an issue. The only two standardized systems for guitar sizes over the years have been Martin and Gibson. Parlor is a loose term so without specifics it makes for a difficult discussion. But way fun anyway. |
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Allen M Cary
Lokahi
USA
158 Posts |
Posted - 01/06/2010 : 12:00:57 PM
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Opps, I mistyped the scale length in reference to the Parlor guitars I have been building. It should say 24.9 inch. But no problems with slackin' as said before.
Allen |
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maggie
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 01/09/2010 : 5:55:30 PM
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| I second Mark on Jerry Nolte's New York Parlor.. it's a sweet guitar. My only problem is I'm still trying to figure out how to play the dang thing. Given my current learning curve and the time I put in practicing, I'm more than happy to have a parlor for the front porch - anything else would be too big and my hands would go numb. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2010 : 10:03:16 AM
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quote:
First, within certain parameters I don't believe size relates to volume.
Or, to put it another way, "It ain't the meat, it's the motion..."
Interesting note about the "touch" required to play in alternate tunings on short scaled guitars. Cuz that's it, exactly.
My little Nolte plays sweet when I use a light, but firm touch. But dig in, and it barks like a puppy with a sad case of the lonesomes. In fact, before I played slack, I played it very hard... so hard I almost went through the top. And loud it can be. A buddy of mine calls it "The acoustic Telecaster."
Volcano, given your background, you might like it. 
PS: I used to work in a studio that had a great sounding 60's (I think) tele on hand, which I played on lots of recordings. Problem was, it had such a wimpy neck that I had to use a light touch to keep the intonation together.
Maybe it was Leo's version of a parlor ax? 
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2010 : 1:36:20 PM
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| I knew a guy in eastern Oregon who had a Martin New Yorker. I was really into Bluegrass at the time, but was impressed by the sound and balance of a smaller guitar. It was a pleasure to fingerpick. |
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Topic |
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Parlour Guitars?
