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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2010 : 06:46:03 AM
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Aloha,
Is there a consensus within Taropatch over which tabbing software works best with slack key songs? The well regarded Sibelius G7 Kontact tabbing software has been discontinued, though I think there are still a few copies left at some stores. The quirks that I have encountered with the combination of the free download, Power Tab Editor 1.7, and the Vista OS have been about as entertaining as acid reflux. The complexity of the interface on my trial version of TablEdit has kept me from digging in and learning this program. Are there other options out there, or is TablEdit the best tabbing software available for slack key?
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2010 : 08:10:41 AM
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Aloha cpatch,
Thank you for the reference to the last tabbing software discussion. I had seen that discussion and still hoped that a more coherent conclusion might have formed in the intervening two years. Perhaps people simply stick with what they started with. I know that I am a bit hesitant to abandon the devil I think I know, Power Tab Editor, for something that will prove more expensive and may prove more frustrating.
A summary of the previous discussion comes down to a list of who uses what:
Fran Guidry TablEdit
Mika ela G7 Kontact
cpatch TablEdit (recommends G7 Kontact or Sibelius Student Ed.)
karlow34 TuxGuitar
Allen M Cary MusEdit
RJS MusEdit
slipry1 Finale
Mark Keyboard w/ MIDI interface and unnamed tabbing software
RichM MusEdit
There doesn't appear to be any clear winner. Is everyone still using/recommending the same tabbing software that they did two years ago? Are you happy with that software? Are there some features that your software lacks that you think are important deficits for use with slack key music? Are there some features that your software has that make it more suited for slack key than other tabbing programs? |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 01/15/2010 : 09:59:34 AM
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quote:
Mark Keyboard w/ MIDI interface and unnamed tabbing software
?????
In the past I've written extensively about Finale, which I use, Sibelius, which I own but rarely use, Finale Guitar, which I used to use when it was supported, Encore (ditto), Mosaic (also ditto).
What's best? That's like asking what flavor ice cream you like. It is what works best for you. If you are doing professional work, you'll need professional tools. If not, you can save a lot of money.
I also have written about using a MIDI controller (not keyboard)-- as in a MIDI guitar (and dulcimer) as an inputting device.
quote:
Are there some features that your software has that make it more suited for slack key than other tabbing programs?
Finale and Sibelius both do a great job of handling alternative tunings. As in, you assign MIDI note numbers to the strings, and either type in fret numbers & notes show up on a staff, or input music to a staff and it'll show up as TAB. You still have to finesse the result, but hey.
Ditto both are great for lyrics, and both have huge amounts of control over the final layout. They are also very complex, have huge learning curves, cost an arm and a leg, and have zillions of features that are totally unnecessary for 90% of the readers of this forum.
Some of their stripped down "student" or "lite" versions do guitar TAB, some don't.
Finale Guitar was great, but it dead. Encore was the best guitar software I've ever used, but it dead. Mosaic was the best dulcimer software I've used, but it dead. I've heard G7 was great for guitar, but apparently it dead too. Starting to see a pattern here?
My advice is not to listen to anyone rant about what they use. Instead, download the demo versions of a few and try them out.
The best one is the one that you can and will use. Period.
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2010 : 04:19:04 AM
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I gave good advice
quote:
Take a look at UltimateGuitar.com or other free tab sites. They offer lots of tabs for Power Tab, Guitar Pro, and a few others......if you buy one that is used more frequently on free tab sites, then you get more to work with when you download them.
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Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 01/16/2010 04:22:10 AM |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2010 : 12:55:50 PM
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Aloha,
Thank you both for the advice.
Mark I apologize about misrepresenting your comments on tabbing software. I only reviewed the thread that cpatch referenced, rather than search through all the threads relating to tabbing.
I am looking for advice on this subject because I find picking a tabbing program more like selecting a preferred brand of cod liver oil, rather than a favorite flavor of ice cream. I am by no means a professional, and don't need professional grade tabbing software. I use a tabbing program to arrange slack key guitar songs for ukulele, and to create more condensed copies of Dave Heaukulani's slack key ukulele tabs. If I manage to get good before I get dead, I might try my hand at some simple compositions.
Working with Dennis Ladd's excellent tabs in the slack key books by Leonard Kwan and Ozzie Kotani has me hoping to find a tabbing program that allows the use of brackets to convey the rhythm and separates the bass and melody lines within the tabs. Both the TablEdit and MusEdit trial downloads allow the use of brackets, but I don't think they differentiate between bass and melody notes, and the interfaces are much more complex than Power Tab Editor. The descriptions I've read of the ability of the G7 Kontact program to use the MIDI program to provide subtle voicing variations is something I find appealing, but I may just learn to live with Power Tab Editor.
Haole_Boy I have never had any success with the free tabbing sites. When I tried UltimateGuitar.com, I couldn't even access the site. The sites that I did manage to get on came up empty every time I searched for slack key melodies, or the composers of slack key melodies. What sort of tabs have you come up with and where were they from? |
Edited by - Haolenuke on 01/21/2010 10:50:32 AM |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 04:26:50 AM
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First off, sorry for this long response.
I have found classical (Recuerdos de La Alhambra, Sheep May Safely Graze, Gymnopedie #1, Classical Gas, etc.)Standards (My funny Valentine, Over the rainbow by garland and IZ, many many more. And all the Pop you can stand. The amount and variety of styles is astounding!
One example: I wanted to do "More Than Words" by Extreme with my granddaughter. I found it in Guitar Pro5 and it was so complete that there was a guitar score, two voices together, and each voice individually. All were part of a four line score that could be turned off or on as I wanted.
Now, I use Guitar Pro5--is it perfect? No way in the world is this software perfect! far from it--it has flaws that need fixing but it does everything.
Is it logical? Sometimes yes and sometimes a very resounding no! However once you find what you need to do, you can usually find it again (not always).
It imports and exports very nicely--this is another very important feature.
The best I can say about it is that the man in charge has always responded to my questions within two days. He is also in the process of making another version.
In the end will you love it? Hey, it could go either way but it does everything. |
Bob |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2010 : 07:00:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Haolenuke
Both the TablEdit and MusEdit trial downloads allow the use of brackets, but I don't think they don't differentiate between bass and melody notes
I can't speak for MusEdit but TablEdit allows you to differentiate between bass and melody notes. You can set a note that defines the line between the two and manually override when necessary with a single keystroke. As for the interface, it's as complex as you want it to be. I just press a key to indicate the note duration, click on the string I want in the onscreen tab, and press the number of the fret I want to play. When I'm done I press the tab key to go on to the next note. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 02:37:46 AM
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I'm pretty lousy at reading tab, and that also goes for writing it. However, I have a friend who's an exellent guitarist and arranger. He's done a couple of books, one of which is an arrnagement of old Irish harp tunes for guitar, and uses a variety of different tunings. He uses TablEdit, even in publication stage, and thinks it's really good. I've just checked and there is an example on his web site - it looks like the bass notes have 'down stems' to me, but like I say, I'm not so good at reading the stuff.
Here's the page if anyone wants a look. I don't think it'd be that different a process tabbing slack key pieces.
http://www.keithhinchliffe.com/hewlett1.html |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 03:46:30 AM
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Trev
I experimented with TablEdit just this past summer. It will allow you to turn individual stems up or down but it is not a two voice tab--close enough if you like TablEdit though. I did not care for the interface but I know others that like it very much. My software allows key pad shortcuts and table edit does not for instance.
I think a top priority in choosing should be import/export capabilities.
If you are choosing software, pay close attention to its ability to import and export. If it can import tabs from other software and also export so that other software can import yours, then it does not matter so much which one you choose because you will not be limited to music by just your software.
Oh, I just recalled another interesting software that I have a demo for but have yet to try. It is called "Progression" and it may be a good chooice too. Now that I have been reminded, I am going to fire it up this weekend--it is a full version but expires in 15 days. It is worth taking a look. |
Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 01/22/2010 03:52:42 AM |
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Mika ele
Ha`aha`a
USA
1493 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 2:03:18 PM
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I have purchase and used both Sibelius G7 and Tabledit. I have come to prefer G7. I like the direct to pdf output and handwritten fonts as well as the user interface. I wish Sibelius would update the software along with their other music editing software. The G7 was specifically designed for guitar. I like the capability to create and stor chord libraries for all the tunings I use. The Kontakt files sound OK when creating audio files to hear the tab being played -- they'll always sound like midi files -- essentially like all the other tabbing software.
There is an advantage with tabledit because of the number of files in "TEF" format that you can find on the web -- maybe 25-50 songs in alternate tunings and some Chet Atkins and Led Kaapana songs. |
E nana, e ho'olohe. E pa'a ka waha, e hana ka lima. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 2:35:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mika ele
I have purchase and used both Sibelius G7 and Tabledit. I have come to prefer G7. I like the direct to pdf output and handwritten fonts as well as the user interface. I wish Sibelius would update the software along with their other music editing software.
Don't hold your breath...G7 is no more; it has been replaced by a "new" product called Sibelius First. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 01/22/2010 2:36:02 PM |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2010 : 3:17:01 PM
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Aloha,
Perhaps it would be useful for me to articulate the pros and cons of Power Tab Editor 1.7 from my perspective as a baseline for comparison. It is apparent to me that members of this forum use tabbing programs for a variety of purposes, and that their priorities are often different. If there is anyone out there that uses Power Tab Editor 1.7 with a different experience with the program than mine, please chime in.
COST, SUPPORT, OPERATING SYSTEM, FILE COMPATIBILITY:
- Power Tab is a free download from: http://download.cnet.com
- There is no official support for Power Tab. There is a Google User
Group at:
http://groups.google.com/group/powertab-users/topics. I posted a
query there a month ago and got no reply.
- The built-in help file is pretty good.
- Power Tab is designed to run on Windows XP. I have had pretty good
success with it on Vista, and I haven't tried it on Windows 7.
There is no MAC version.
- The Power Tab .ptb tab file format is not compatible with Finale,
or Sibelius, software.
- Power Tab can export ASCII and .html files of the tabs, but they
look awful.
TAB SYMBOLS AVAILABLE:
- Power Tab has clear symbols for: hammer on, pull off, hammer on /
pull off, slide, legato slide, slide down/up, harmonics, arpeggios,
vibrato, bends, trills, tremolo, taps, palm mute, etc. These
symbols are not very big, or bold, an I have found no way to alter
that.
- The only common slack key tab symbol that I haven't found is a
symbol for a brush stroke.
MUSICAL DIRECTION:
- Power Tab can handle repeat endings, codas, segnos, and all that
stuff, but it took a while before I could get it to work properly.
EASE OF LEARNING / USE:
- I think that I could use the program fairly well after inputting
about 3 songs.
- It is very easy to cut and paste repeated measures, or groups of
measures, into other locations.
- The score checker feature is very handy for ensuring that the
rhythm is right.
- It takes me about 3 hours to input a 60 measure taropatch slack
key guitar tab, and another half hour to modify the tab to a four
string tab for baritone uke. Another five minutes yields a tab
for tenor uke.
- Some files that I have input have caused the program to crash when
I try to run the MIDI player. I was able to salvage the file
information by cutting and pasting the tabs into a new file.
DIFFERENTIATING BETWEEN BASS AND MELODY LINE:
- Power Tab does not have the option of brackets in the tabs.
- Power Tab has a toggle button that allows notes to be designated
high melody and low melody. High melody notes have their stems
sticking up in the musical score that must be printed with the
tab, and low melody notes have their stems sticking down.
PRINTING FLEXIBILITY:
- One serious slack key problem with Power Tab is that as best I can
tell it doesn't support kahakō, the mark that looks like a dash
over a vowel in a Hawaiian word. Thus Hawaiian names and lyrics
can't be written properly in Power Tab. My standard approach to
nonstandard text is to click on Insert on Microsoft Word's toolbar,
then click on Symbol, insert the appropriate characters to spell
the special word. Once I have the special word or character in
Microsoft Word, like "kahakō," I cut and paste it into the program
I am using like this messaging software. Power Tab doesn't
recognize the nonstandard text. If anyone knows of a workaround
please let me know.
- It is possible to change fonts, and bold text or tab numbers, as
desired.
- I have not found a way to change the format of how the program
prints song file information. This becomes difficult when the
song was composed by one person, a copyrighted guitar tab
arrangement was created by someone else, and I've modified this
arrangement for ukulele. To communicate most of this information
without names getting truncated the tabs must be printed in
landscape.
FILE IMPORT / EXPORT:
- Power Tabs exports ASCII, MIDI, and HTML files. It imports
MIDI files. I tried importing both a MIDI and an ASCII file
into TablEdit from Power Tabs. The MIDI file failed to import,
and while the ASCII did import, the result was very different from
the original tab.
MIDI PLAYER:
- I haven't found a way to get more options than a standard
synthesizer.
- Nonetheless, the MIDI player is very helpful for getting a basic
idea of how a song sounds.
I hope this helps. Power Tab Editor is pretty good for the price. |
Edited by - Haolenuke on 01/24/2010 07:07:55 AM |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2010 : 12:33:14 AM
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Per the advice in this thread, I worked with trial copies of TablEdit, MusEdit, and GuitarPro5. I also chased down a copy of the discontinued Sibelius G7.
I never managed to figure out the user interfaces for MusEdit or TablEdit. I flailed at each for a few hours before I decided I wasn't clever enough to get productive with these programs.
Acquiring a copy of Sibelius G7 proved to be an interesting challenge, but thus far, I am still beating my thick skull against the user interface. I had hoped that I might be able to transfer files cleanly into G7 for some tweaks, but G7 like other Sibelius programs, does not do a good job of importing or exporting files in formats that other programs can deal with cleanly.
For me the hands down winner is GuitarPro5 (GP5). The user interface is simple enough for me to use with a minimum of expletives. The MIDI player has instrument options that do a good job of mimicking a guitar, though I don't think that different instruments can be assigned to the melody and bass line voices. GP5 can cleanly import TablEdit, and Power Tab files. It can import and export MusicXML formated files, so it can communicate readily with Finale. And it can export files in PDF format.
GP5 does not do a good job of mimicking the tab format that Dennis Ladd developed for Leonard Kwan and Ozzie Kotani, which used brackets in the tabs to indicate rhythm. GP5 does allow printing rhythm indicating brackets in the tab for either the bass or melody line, but not both simultaneously. GP5 does consistently space the fretting numbers based upon the duration of the notes they represent. Thus while the rhythm information in the tabs is not as blatant as in Dennis Ladd's tabs, the information can be gleaned from the tabs alone.
I would prefer more print formating options, more song file information formating options, more tab bracketing options, and more blatant slur identification, but GP5 is likely to be my main tabbing tool for quite a while. |
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Best Tabbing Software for Slack Key?
