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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
 Posted - 08/09/2010 : 08:24:44 AM
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This is a subject that I would really like to have lots of input on.
What do you believe are reasons that so few women play slack key compared to the number of men? Why is it more attractive to men? Are there cultural differences that come into play?
I think there are a couple of things that influence that.
1. Women have no tie to devote to the in-depth study and practice that it takes to be a proficient slack key player. Women are busy not only working jobs outside the home, but then they have children to raise, household chores to do, etc. Maybe once the kids are grown and they retire they might have time to do it.
2. Men are more performance oriented. By that I mean they see something complicated and hard to do such as slack key as a challenge in proving their manhood. Kind of like playing golf...you always try to improve your game. Same for guitar playing...you always try to do something bigger and better. Plus swell guitar playing going to get the babes hanging all over you.
What you guys think?
There have to be true reasons why so few women are involved. It is a cultural mystery.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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Retro
Ahonui
USA
2368 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 12:35:32 PM
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Women in music/the arts in general - making more and more inroads alla time. For generations, women were restricted much by the reasons you outlined in point #1, combined with the fact that a large percentage of women were not permitted to get an education of any kine for such a long period of history (still the case in many corners of the world).
But that is changing, and it is taking time to see the effects. We need (and will see) more in the vein of Owana Salazar, Cindy Combs, Brittni Paiva, etc. |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 1:05:21 PM
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| Hard to dance hula and play slack key at the same time? |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 1:17:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by salmonella
Hard to dance hula and play slack key at the same time?
Masybe that's why there are so few male hula dancers! They're too busy playing slack key. |
keaka |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 5:27:36 PM
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Well, slack key does have its roots among cowboys on the ranch. But from my personal experience, the popularity among men that you talk about is not isolated to slack key guitar. I have been to acoustic guitar workshops (and guitar stores) and observed similar numbers whether it be blues, folk, bluegrass, etc. Lots of men, and a few women. Look at rock 'n' guitarists or guitar shredders. While there are women, it is clearly male dominated.
The subject of player versus performer is a separate subject. Often those that perform publicly and subsequently tour make a sacrifice. Being on the road means not having a family or being away from family for extended periods. I suppose that your point of females being the primary caregiver/homemaker applies here.
Another dimension of this discussion is the popularity of parlor guitars in America in the 19th century. I understand that there were fingerstyle arrangements of popular songs, hymns and dances and were considered especially suitable for women to play. It does not seem to be a big leap to assume that the parlor guitars that were being played in New England were also brought to Hawai'i. We know that many missionaries came to Hawai'i from New England. Many consider the playing of Auntie Alice Namakelua to have been in the style of the previous century so maybe she gives a glimpse into what female parlor pickers were playing way back when. Plus, there are wahine tunings which some speculate were tunings more suitable for women's smaller hands.
Just some thoughts to add to the mix. |
Andy |
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maggie
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 5:50:20 PM
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Interesting question Wanda. I'm learning how to play slack now, but I would have never had the time to devote to it when my children were younger - not even when on Maui. I only have time now because my kids are going off on their own. I'm learning how to play, but I'll never perform in public - the anxiety is just too much, even when playing for teacher. But what's interesting is that one of the reasons I decided to learn how to play slack key was because, when I looked into the next 20 years or so, I realized I wanted a gift that I could bring to my grandchildren (if I'm so blessed). A gift that represents my love of Hawaii and Hawaiian music. And since I really can't dance (two left feet), I thought, hey! why not? Tutu can play slack for the keiki. Now that's a gift that can keep on giving and a role I'm willing to take.
It's an itty-bitty minor role in music, but my guess is that between the cooking and cleaning up, there are a lot more tutus and aunties playing slack key for the keiki than we could imagine. |
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maggie
Aloha
USA
40 Posts |
Posted - 08/09/2010 : 5:57:32 PM
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| Oi.. wish I had seen Andy's response before I posted mine. Ditto his statement, including the parlor guitar part. |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 05:48:56 AM
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| A local male slack key player once commented to me -- as we watched a local wahine slack keyer -- "amazing that those two small hands can play kiho`alu so well". Perhaps that is another reason for the dearth of female players? |
Auntie Maria
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 06:31:59 AM
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Queen Lili`uokalani played slack key, but that was before huge Gibsons and jumbo Taylors or whatever. Or before double neck guitars like Haunani Apoliona plays.
You'd think after all the years of watching the pleasure Paul gets out of playing guitar that I would want to join in the fun, but I really had no desire to do so. Even with the `ukulele, I am not quite as motivated as he is. He likes to pick out melodies and make it sound really nice. Me, I am happy just to strum enough to accompany myself for a song.
I think a lot of women are happy enough with being "OK" at it -- there is not that "competitiveness" to play better than the next guy or to want to emulate BB King or Eric Clapton or Led Kaapana. I really do think that is a male trait. That's why Guitar Acquisition Syndrome exists. That's why all the gadgets and equipment sell to men. Same thing for men liking the guys who "shred" or like really hard rock more than women do.
Is there a way that slack key can be "marketed" to women to get them interested in playing?
Claudia - why do you play? Or Neej? Or any of you other ladies out there who play? What motivated you to learn a very complex and difficult (but beautiful) way of playing guitar? Could that passion that you felt somehow be used to get young ladies interested in carrying on the tradition? |
Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 09:57:31 AM
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The same holds true for singers as well. Many more male artists. If you go mele.com and check under the "Male Artists" tab you will see 30 pages listed. If you check under the "Female Artists" tab you only see 8 pages. When I do my radio shows I try and balance out male and female performers I always have a harder time finding songs by women to add into the playlist compared to the number of men I have to choose from.
The rarest of all...wahine steel guitar players. Owana Salazar comes to mind. Anybody else? There are some from way back ...Annie Kerr, Mikilani Fo..but how about now? |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 10:45:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by markwitz
The rarest of all...wahine steel guitar players. Owana Salazar comes to mind. Anybody else? There are some from way back ...Annie Kerr, Mikilani Fo..but how about now?
Just wait a while, brah! When I performed with Alan Akaka's school back in May, there were several wahines among his younger steel students. Still not many,though. |
keaka |
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kaneohegirl
Aloha
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 12:23:13 PM
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That's very true for me Wanda. I have to work and take care of the house and my son and of course I have a social life. It's hard to get enough practice time in.....I'm not going to use that as an excuse though because I'm sure it's true for alot of guys too.
I think some people are just naturally more talented.....I am having to work really hard, but I am passionate about it.....I really don't care as much about being better than anyone or wanting to get on stage. I just love the music and the culture and the people.
I've always had a tendency to do stuff that women don't do too much. I am an electronics tech. I love a good challenge.
I know there are more men doin it....but I know culturally women in Hawaii have always played.....starting with Queen Liliuokalani and Auntie Alice Namakelua. I do look at Owana and Cindy as great influences.
The little hands thing....doubt it! I wander the opposite when I see Led with his HUGE hands playing the ukulele. |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 12:40:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by slipry1
quote:
Originally posted by markwitz
The rarest of all...wahine steel guitar players. Owana Salazar comes to mind. Anybody else? There are some from way back ...Annie Kerr, Mikilani Fo..but how about now?
Just wait a while, brah! When I performed with Alan Akaka's school back in May, there were several wahines among his younger steel students. Still not many,though.
That's great to hear. I hope to be able to buy their CDs soon. I'll just be satisfied to see our local wahine steel guitar pro Patti Maxine, for the time being.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLqzl6JiHRI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVcT81ZYcPY&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgxG9u5Ig2g&feature=related |
"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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Hookani
Lokahi
232 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 2:04:55 PM
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| I'll bet there are a lot more underground wahine kihoalu players than we think. Like Carmel, maybe they don't seek the limelight like the men do and just play to themselves because they love the music and it's a form of relaxation. Maybe the one's passing down the art form are more inclined to pass it on to their sons rather than the daughters so the opportunity is not equally given to the wahine of the family. Just some of my thoughts. |
Ke Kani Nahe
YouTube
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 2:15:07 PM
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I have a few old photos (reproduced as postcards) of Hawaiian musicians from the late 19th, early 20th Centuries. See Ozzie's book for some of 'em. Female guitarists outnumber men about three to one.
Now, of course this could represent the photographer's bias.
But whenever I look at an old picture of a guitarist, I check out the hands. Many of these women could play guitar, no question.
Yep, "parlor" guitar was a Victorian ladies' entertainment. And don't forget the parlor guitar standard, "Spanish Fandango" was in G major tuning, known as Taropatch in these parts....
Nonetheless, as everyone has pointed out, guys tend to be more prevalent these days whatever the musical genre. Lots of action to try to change that, but old habits die hard.
Really good question, Wanda! Thanks for asking it.
(Incidentally, until not very long ago, men did all the knitting....) |
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garson
Lokahi
USA
112 Posts |
Posted - 08/10/2010 : 6:03:37 PM
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| Jest love Patti Maxine. Thanks for posting. |
Jim Garson |
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Women Playing Slack Key
