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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
 Posted - 10/01/2010 : 4:08:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by no ka oi
For any who don't him, Jeff is very humble and would never refer to himself as anything but a guitar player. FWIW he fits my definition of a great player. Touch, tone, emotional content and great technical proficiency.
mabee he would read this thread and have a good laugh? ;) |
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no ka oi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2010 : 4:29:23 PM
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Why would this make any artist laugh? It starts out with someone questioning his being included with other players and continues with someone well respected in the field explaining his short comings. Maybe he wouldn't care but I don't think he would be laughing.
Maybe nasty is the wrong word, but something doesn't feel right about this thread.
While I greatly respect you knowledge Peter I know plenty who would be happy to do hula to Jeff's music. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 10/01/2010 : 5:39:32 PM
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I'm sorry to let you down, but It's alright to disagree with me. My word is not the final word on slack key by any measure or means. However, there is some logic to my thinking. I prefaced my statement on Jeff by stating he is a great player, not just an average player or a good player. There is a significant difference. Jeff is in that small number of guitarists in Hawai‘i who are extremely competent and much sought after. He is a professional and makes every dollar of his livelihood with his ability with the guitar. But he is not a perfect player, which is what I would always like to see and hear -- there are none, still, I do have perhaps an unobtainable ideal of what the music could sound like.
I think highly of Jeff. He is playing in good company. Now I have said the same thing about Gabby and even my mentor, Peter Moon. Where Gabby would put five beats in a four four measure, or better yet, make up the Hawaiian lyrics, because at that moment in time in the performance he forgot the words. Peter would push the envelope so far that after four or five modulations the rest of the band he was playing with would be wondering if they were still playing same the song that they had started with. Sometimes the changes in tempo and feel would be so avante garde, there would be no question that the music Peter was playing was not Hawaiian music. Does this mean that I think anything less of them, or that all of their music is bad, or that there is a question about their competancy? The answer to that question is no. And I think the same way about Jeff. The world is not all black and white. Does this answer any doubts that you may have or do I have to explain further?
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 01:48:22 AM
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| well I guess because if it was me I would laugh! The whole thing is laughable. An argument about labels and quality based personal tastes opinions and portfolio/resumes. Well if the argument is about who is 'master of slack key' it seems rather ironic to me. Didn't slack key tradition come from a family tradition of playing togther? Not stage performance and selling albums and grammy awards. As far as anyone plsying anything perfect, ain't gonna happen, we are not machines. I find charm in mistakes and the unexpected, like forgetting the words and making up lyrics as you go. Now thats talent lol. Music is about touching hearts #1. If you can bring a tear to someones eye with your performance you know you have. whoever can do that has mastered their instrument IMO. I have spent a lot of years teaching guitar to little children and to see their joy when they have 'mastered' something always give me great joy. And mabee there is somebody on a back porch somewhere playing Kiho'alu for thier family that is more of a master than all the 'name' players. thats where the heart of the music is IMHO and the mana. And its why I laugh. |
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RWD
`Olu`olu
USA
850 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 05:25:50 AM
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First of all, kudos to Mark who has been consistently articulate and concise with his thoughts here on TP.
"Master" is a personal ranking system for most of us. Although unofficial it is a way we communicate our evaluation of talent.
You can figure out who is a Master for yourself.
You only have to answer a basic question first: In what category and/or sub-category is the title being used?
-A master is when someone is called a "Master"
and you do not flinch and are in total harmony with the idea.
-A player is not a master if, when given the title, you do not agree and are filled with criticism.
For me, in his style and as a guitar player, Jeff is what I would call a "Master". Most players here could only dream of having his talent.
For traditional slack key, I tend to think of different players but this is not at all a slight to Jeff.
Know what I mean Vern?
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Bob |
Edited by - RWD on 10/02/2010 06:08:51 AM |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 06:50:27 AM
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Bob - you have said what I couldn't figure out how to say. I do know what you mean, Vern. Yep, yep.
This is what I have kept saying. I am not slighting Jeff.
Last year Amy Hanaiali`i came out with a wonderful CD called "Friends & Family of Hawai`i" http://www.mele.com/music/artist/amy+hanaiali%60i/friends+%26+family+of+hawai%60i/
I bought that CD. And I told Paul that with all the huhu about slack key always winning the Grammy, I thought this was one that would be "palatable" to the people who vote on the Hawaiian category award without being intimately knowledgeable about the genre. The CD had plenty of wonderful traditional Hawaiian music tempered with sufficient quantity and quality of "other" music to make it acceptable to others without being an entire recording of Hawaiian language music. She surrounded herself with some of the best musicians Hawai`i has to offer. It was a very fine recording. And she and her brother both made it absolutely crystal clear that they hoped it would garner a Grammy. So much so that they (well maybe just Eric) started a pretty ugly flame war on Facebook about a different nominee trying to sabotage voting by making sure that none of the nominees could have live streaming of their samples online for prospective voters in order to capitalize merely on name recognition. Aue. The Slack Key guys won again (instead of who many people automatically assumed would win).
So it seems apparent to me that she has put out another CD with the aforethought that it would be submitted for consideration for a Grammy. This time the magic words will be "slack key masters" instead of "open sesame" for entree into the magic kingdom of Grammy winners.
Once again -- please know that I am not dissing anyone's talent. I am naive enough to believe that talent, pure talent will make winners. Every recording that has made it to voting each year so far is equally deserving -- they were all superb in their own unique ways.
And that takes me back to what the original question was which was what constitutes a master and that has been adequately answered here. The answer is as far as designation on a recording for marketing purposes it means nothing, but to me in my heart and my head, it means a whole lot more.
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Me ke aloha
Malama pono,
Wanda |
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 12:06:47 PM
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Here is my opinion, although it does not concern the question of master Jeff.
When I was a teen and young adult, I was known in my family as the "instigator". Being the youngest of 6 opinionated siblings and numerous close relatives, I took it as my job to instigate the arguments at various family gatherings. My family so loved to "discuss things" that they quickly forgot who actually started it and why. These arguments were seldom healthy. I grew out of this role once it was pointed out to me and have since forced myself to avoid taking it at family gatherings.
The world, and Taropatch, is filled with folks who relish a good argument and who find pleasure in instigating it and following along as it progresses. I still recognize my old self even if I choose to try and avoid it.
My opinion is that each of us should decide if we think this "instigator" style of personal interface is productive, healthy, and righteous or if we prefer to limit our responses to questions asked in the spirit of enlightenment. |
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mike2jb
Lokahi
USA
213 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 3:07:31 PM
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After following this thread with interest, I happened to catch a 40-minute flight to Hilo long enough to find tucked into the seat back an opinion on this subject from someone whose words have informed another recent and similar thread here:
quote:
As one might expect, Makana’s stylings and stories tick off the purists. Early on in his career he caught flak for taking liberties with a much-revered musical heritage. It didn’t help any that he wasn’t Hawaiian but rather a young Czech-Chinese kid named Matt Swalinkavich. But he stood his ground, and hallowed ground it was. One of his mentors was Sonny Chillingworth, the very embodiment of slack key guitar gravitas. “At concerts in Hawai‘i, people would say, ‘Sonny would be mad at you for mixing up the music,’ and I would think, ‘They got it all wrong.’ The real kupuna who gave me this gift turned tradition on its head.”
If there is one thing that Makana recalls from Uncle Sonny, it’s that the heart of slack key is not form as much as it’s what’s inside you. “So I don’t approach slack key by holding it too tightly, or it becomes a relic in a museum. If something is being expressed with the fear of it actively dying, then it is already dead,” says Makana, remembering the many times as a teen he pored through the liner notes of slack key maestro Leonard Kwan’s albums and was disturbed by the ominous words, “Slack key is a dying art form of old Hawai‘i.” Above all Sonny taught Makana that slack key is inseparable from the Islands. After a moment of silence, Makana says, “What Sonny was really saying is that slack key is love and love is at the core of everything.”
The whole article is in this month's issue of Hana Hou, the in-flight magazine of Hawaiian Airlines. |
Edited by - mike2jb on 10/02/2010 3:10:03 PM |
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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2010 : 6:54:56 PM
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Oh Noooooooo!! Mike you have brought into this thread the dreaded "M" word. The word that makes innocent people with warmth in their hearts and the milk of human kindness running through their veins, turn into lava spewing visages of Pele herself!!
Ahem....
Great article....thanks for sharing.
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"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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wcerto
Ahonui
USA
5052 Posts |
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rendesvous1840
Ha`aha`a
USA
1055 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 04:51:26 AM
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Peterson's using a flat pick on his solo.
Unko Paul |
"A master banjo player isn't the person who can pick the most notes.It's the person who can touch the most hearts." Patrick Costello |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 05:19:21 AM
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here is another vid linked to that one of the same concert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyvK1eHtw3w
another good reason to laugh, argument ends up in free word of mouth promotion  |
Edited by - Bau on 10/03/2010 05:22:50 AM |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
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Haolenuke
Lokahi
USA
117 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 06:25:53 AM
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| HURRY UP PLEASE IT'S TIME |
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sm80808
Lokahi
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/03/2010 : 07:24:39 AM
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| All I have to say from watching those videos is Chino Montero, keys slacked or not, is a great guitarist and surely a master. |
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Slack "MASTER" designation
