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markwitz
`Olu`olu
USA
841 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2011 : 03:59:17 AM
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As Nancy Kahumoku remarks in her description of this video clip of Ken Emerson, this is a very unusual technique. She says she has never seen anyone else turn a regular guitar into a lapsteel. But isn't that basically what bottleneck slide guitarists do all the time?
Ken Emerson at 2:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKlKJTjIJQE&feature=player_embedded
Bonnie Raitt at 1:45
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Mylo0piAgc
Please help educate an non musician on what's going on here.
Would any musicians care to comment? Why don't we see more of this?
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"The music of the Hawaiians, the most fascinating in the world, is still in my ears and
haunts me sleeping and waking."
Mark Twain |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 04:14:51 AM
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I've been doing this with a few of my guitars because I am trying to learn lap steel but I can't afford to buy a lap steel guitar. I am going to try and make one though.
The problem with using a regular guitar, is that usualy the action is too low. You get a lot of noise and hitting the frets if your not realy careful. It seems harder to get a good tone if you cna't add enough pressure to the slide. Same with playing bottleneck slide style though.
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 06:37:55 AM
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The fingerboard radius and low nut make a standard guitar suboptimal for lap-steel playing, but it can be done. It used to be not-uncommon to retrofit a high nut (they're still available) to make a regular guitar play more like a Dobro, though that prevents changing back and forth. Blues players who switch between fingers and slide often have their action set a bit high to accommodate slide.
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salmonella
Lokahi
240 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 07:36:44 AM
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| Places like elderly instruments sell something called a "nut extender" that raises the action easily and reversably. |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1023 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 09:04:13 AM
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| Boy! Bonnie Raitt doing SRV. Where's my bottleneck? |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 09:49:26 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bau
I've been doing this with a few of my guitars because I am trying to learn lap steel but I can't afford to buy a lap steel guitar. I am going to try and make one though.
The problem with using a regular guitar, is that usualy the action is too low. You get a lot of noise and hitting the frets if your not realy careful. It seems harder to get a good tone if you cna't add enough pressure to the slide. Same with playing bottleneck slide style though.
Bau - check out Musician's Friend. They have a Rogue lap steel for $99 plus shpping. I have several sytudents who have them, and Trev and Sherry Mayrent came to Aloha camp with them. It's way too good for so little money.
For the rest - nut extenders have been around for 80 or more years. Before there were resonator guitars, and, maybe Weisenborne's, a raised nut was used by steel players tp avoid fret noise. I know from photos that Leon MacAulliffe played a raised nut Martin (looks like a 00-16)with a sound hole pickup when he started with Bob Wills in 1935. |
keaka |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 11:36:32 AM
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that sounds nice, Rogue is a very god brand for low end gear. But sorry when I say I have no money I mean it. not $99, not 2 cents to rub togther. not even for my medications and stuff. thats why my uke came from the trash lol But I've got some spare guitar parts , hands that kinda work still , power tools and a board. I am all for recycling anyway ;)
but thanks for that tip, mabee it help someone else.
the nut extender is a great idea! I'm gonna try and make one of them first :) |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 7:09:55 PM
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Bau,
Homemade nut extender/string-flattener;
Take a 2 inch length of copper or steel pipe 3/8 inch in diameter. Cut it in half lengthwise. Sand the edges of both nice and smooth. Loosen your strings and slide one of the half-tbes over the nut, the other over the saddle. Retighten the strings. You may have to file slots on the nut end to prevent the high and low E strings from sliding out of position or off the nut; put the grooves where the slots are in the original nut below.
A bar can be made of any heavy, smooth chunk of metal 5/8 - 3/4 " diameter. Brass rod is good, and cheap.
The raised strings should prevent fret clicking, and the metal at each end can give a loud, clear sound IF the edges are straight and flat and fit tightly and evenly where it contacts your guitar.
Have fun. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Julie H
Ha`aha`a
USA
1206 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 10:07:06 PM
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I'm waiting for KonaBob to chime in, he's done this morphing of guitars for ever! Ho Bob!
Julie |
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thumbstruck
Ahonui
USA
2174 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 04:46:18 AM
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| I used to have a Takamine resonator guitar. I put a "Hawaiian Extension Nut" on it and played it as a steel. Worked great. |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2011 : 05:27:03 AM
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I play lap style on a regular acoustic quite often. I use ‘standard tuning’ too. I got into it when I broke my collar bone in a motorcycle crash. For six weeks I was in a sling and couldn’t use my shoulder, so I couldn’t reach round a guitar in the normal way. So in order to keep playing I gave the lap style a try.
I’ve found I can do minor type chords on the top three strings, major type chords on 2, 3 and 4, sixths on 1 and 3.
Apart from those, I’ll use single strings for bits of lead. It’s all a bit half baked, I suppose, but I don’t seem to have a problem with tone, and I don’t get noise or knock the frets – you just need a light touch on the left hand.
The big advantage is that I can just pick it up and use it for the next song, without having to retune, tinker with nut extenders, or carry another instrument around. The disadvantage is that I feel that it’s an ‘approximation’ of steel playing rather than proper steel playing. But then if I’m playing American (or for that matter Hawaiian) music in the first place then what I play is always going to be something of an approximation.
Still I’m making progress, slowly and gradually. Thanks to Konabob I’m using fingerpicks, and thanks to Alan Akaka at the Aloha camp I’ve got some major scales in a couple of positions, so I’ve got an idea of how it works and fits together. But for my regular ‘playing-in-the-pub’ situations, the ‘one guitar for everything’ approach is, well, very practical.
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2011 : 05:40:41 AM
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sorry to hear of your accident Trev :(
that was my inpiration for learning more slide, my hands don't always have the strength for holding down srings for long.
But I've always had an interest anyway.
that is convenient to be able to use standard tuning. I've exxperimented with slack key tunings lie taropatch for the open chord.
you make a good point about the approximation thing. I feel the same way.
quick noob question if I may, what are the most common lap steel tunings?
@ Karl M. thanks for the instructions :)
Q: doesn't the edges of copper pipe, dig into the finish of the guitar over time from the pressure of the strings and vibration? |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2011 : 07:24:30 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Trev
I play lap style on a regular acoustic quite often. I use ‘standard tuning’ too. I got into it when I broke my collar bone in a motorcycle crash. For six weeks I was in a sling and couldn’t use my shoulder, so I couldn’t reach round a guitar in the normal way. So in order to keep playing I gave the lap style a try.
I’ve found I can do minor type chords on the top three strings, major type chords on 2, 3 and 4, sixths on 1 and 3.
Apart from those, I’ll use single strings for bits of lead. It’s all a bit half baked, I suppose, but I don’t seem to have a problem with tone, and I don’t get noise or knock the frets – you just need a light touch on the left hand.
The big advantage is that I can just pick it up and use it for the next song, without having to retune, tinker with nut extenders, or carry another instrument around. The disadvantage is that I feel that it’s an ‘approximation’ of steel playing rather than proper steel playing. But then if I’m playing American (or for that matter Hawaiian) music in the first place then what I play is always going to be something of an approximation.
Still I’m making progress, slowly and gradually. Thanks to Konabob I’m using fingerpicks, and thanks to Alan Akaka at the Aloha camp I’ve got some major scales in a couple of positions, so I’ve got an idea of how it works and fits together. But for my regular ‘playing-in-the-pub’ situations, the ‘one guitar for everything’ approach is, well, very practical.
Hey Trev! If you need help, I'd be more than happy to assist you. Contact me off-line. Also, Basil Henriques is somewhere in the British Isles. He is an excellent source for Hawaiian steel and has been teachin for quite a while. |
keaka |
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slipry1
Ha`aha`a
USA
1511 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2011 : 07:29:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bau
sorry to hear of your accident Trev :(
that was my inpiration for learning more slide, my hands don't always have the strength for holding down srings for long.
But I've always had an interest anyway.
that is convenient to be able to use standard tuning. I've exxperimented with slack key tunings lie taropatch for the open chord.
you make a good point about the approximation thing. I feel the same way.
quick noob question if I may, what are the most common lap steel tunings?
@ Karl M. thanks for the instructions :)
Q: doesn't the edges of copper pipe, dig into the finish of the guitar over time from the pressure of the strings and vibration?
The oldest steel tuning is, of course, Taropatch. Then, starting in the 20's, E and D tunings appeared. I believe that Sol Ho'opi'i was the first to use a 6th tuning, E6, which he called C#minor. it spread like wildfire through the country and western swing players and became C6, D9 (added a ninth note to the 6th chord), E9, etc. Most players nowdays use a C6 in some variation, although some folks, like Konabob, use a G6. btw, I think taht this topic should be moved to the Steel page, yeah, Andy? |
keaka |
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Trev
Lokahi
United Kingdom
265 Posts |
Posted - 03/16/2011 : 01:11:42 AM
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Bau, the accident was over six years ago - it didn't heal properly straight away and I needed an operation involving some bone from my hip and a titanium plate, but for the last few years I've been as good as new.
Thinking about it, if it wasn't for that, I'd not have come to the idea of playing steel guitar, and thence to developing an interest in Hawaiian music. Every cloud has a silver lining!
Jack, that's very kind of you. Maybe one day! |
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Bau
Lokahi
USA
226 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2011 : 12:32:45 AM
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Mahalo for the info Slipry1
@ trev glad to here you are good as new, you are a lucky one then! ;)
that is a nice thought, that something tragic can have a beautiful outcome.
To silver linings and happy endings! cheers :) |
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Topic |
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Slack key into lap steel guitar
