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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
 Posted - 10/14/2003 : 5:39:35 PM
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Aloha! I'm wondering if someone can help me with a translation into Hawaiian.
(Deep breath). I'm about to reveal my last name, on the internet, even. It's spelled "Bushouse," pronounced "Bush House."
I'd like to translate my last name into Hawaiian - but more than just what "Bush House" would translate to. I'd like to translate what the name originally meant, according to family legend.
The first "Bushouse" was an Irish pirate whose ship was wrecked on the coast of The Netherlands. He made it ashore, and built a house in the woods near a small town. He didn't speak Dutch, and the townspeople didn't speak Irish, so they referred to him as the man who lived in the house in the woods. In Dutch, the name was "Boshuis," meaning house in the woods.
So I'd like to learn what the literal translation of "Bush house" would be, as well as what the first Bushouse might have been called if he ended up in Hawaii: a foreigner, who doesn't speak the language, living in the woods (or whatever environment he might live in away from a town or village).
Any thoughts?
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 6:11:55 PM
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In modern terms, illegal ESL immigrant?  |
Pauline |
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Popoki
Akahai
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 10/14/2003 : 9:25:59 PM
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Aloha John,
I don't really know the language, mostly just greetings. Looking in the Hawaiian dictionary for you, here's what I found
bush is la'au li'li'i - la'au means tree and li'ili'i is small
house is hale
forest is ulu la'au
hale i loko o ulu la'au could be house in the forest....
Sarah, what do you think???
Hope this helps.
Aloha, >^..^< |
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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 12:59:01 AM
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Mahalo to the responses so far (even yours, Pauline - I maintain that the immigration was accidental at worst, fortunate at best, as the Dutch seemed pretty able to pass us off to another country later on  ).
I forgot to mention that I'm also hoping to be able to shorten the phrase to a word - I'd like to get a better login name than my current one. |
Edited by - Kahalenahele on 10/15/2003 01:00:23 AM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 02:11:00 AM
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Great story -
Raymond
San Jose |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 03:06:02 AM
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| Hale nahele (forest house if I'm right) is probably the shortest you're going to get, and it has a nice ring to it. (You can throw haole in there somewhere for good measure if you like!) |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 10/15/2003 03:07:36 AM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 09:10:42 AM
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| Fyi, let me know when you've settled on a new user name because I'll need to change that for you. You cannot do it yourself. |
Andy |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 10:37:36 PM
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Aloha mai e John,
From what I know of Hawaiian, Craig-cpatch has got it. Halenahele would be an appropriate interpretation (note I do not say "translation"). My reasoning is thus:
1. While the Hawaiians have a number of words for undeveloped woodsy areas in their environment and the names often depend on the elevation of the area (being mountainous isles), the word nahele is a pretty general term, and is now used for "forest" in general -- in, for instance, the term "rain forest".
2. The Dutch, being on the other hand a people of sea level and thus a single elevation, had no such distinctions to make -- and so a woods was made up of a fairly homogenous botanical selection. I interpret the Dutch "Bos" as cognate to Fr. "Bois", or "Woods", signifying a general, natural growth of large trees. Again, "nahele" seems to me to fulfill that meaning.
3. The foreigner element could be included, but seems an unnecessary complication of a concept already defined in Boshuis. One might possibly argue as well that by virtue of living in the woods, one was already inherently somewhat out of the local loop -- i.e. a bit of a stranger. (Which, by the way, is also what malihini connotes: a stranger, not necessarily from a foreign land). So, I opt to skip the foreigner part in the interest of keeping the name short.
In Hawaiian, as some other languages, the modifier almost always follows the noun, so....i ku'u mana'o pono'i [in my own opinion], in a nice tidy short name, you could easily be "Keoni Halenahele"
aloha no,
Sarah
M.H. [P.S.] just a note: many people do inquire about translating from English to Hawaiian, and my "translations" are usually guarded (qualified as "interpretation") because of what I see as a leap that often needs to be made between cultures--between world-views. That is why the *context* of the words is so important to include (as you did, John) for the process of interpretation. It pretty easy to translate (i.e. literally word-for-word) directly between "like" cultures (say, French and Italian), but not necessarily between those with different outlooks on the whole world -- and therefore some understanding of the cultures involved is, I think, critical. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2003 : 11:44:44 PM
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Sarah,
I'm very impressed with the way you handle the language issues. Great work. (BTW, I have degress in 3 languages and know 2 others, and have had translations published - not saying it to brag about me, but to add "weight" to me compliment.)
Raymond
San Jose |
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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2003 : 01:47:20 AM
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Aloha and Mahalo, Sarah!
I have now used up most of my Hawaiian language knowledge in the above salutation, Aside from having a good idea what I'm singing when we perform "Na Moku Eha."
Thank you for explicitly stating what I was implicitly asking; I was looking for the "interpretation" rather than the word for word translation. Your M.H. pretty much explains why - I don't want to insult anyone unintentionally by adopting bits and pieces of another culture without trying to gain a better understanding of the culture at the same time.
Oh, I agree with Raymond, too: I like the way you deal with language issues as well! |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2003 : 02:50:31 AM
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| BTW John, I think it's a cool name (European or Hawaiian version). |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2003 : 5:19:04 PM
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Another interpretation question: Could "malihini nahele" be interpreted as "stranger in (or from) the woods"?
I ask, because Hale Nahele is a resort property. |
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Bwop
Lokahi
USA
244 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2003 : 6:35:28 PM
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Aloha e John,
You've got absolutely stellar responses, but just to muddy the waters, I'll add my two cents--
Though you've probably got the best approximation to your actual name, you could also think what the primary meaning is. In Hawai'ian society, so much depended on relationships that one who "showed up" without connections had to be reckoned with. Mayhaps it was "Lono" (as Captain Cook was taken), an outcast from another place or not even an actual person but an 'uhane (spirit).
"Kanaka 'e" simply means foriegner, and I take it as a nuetral word. Someone who has no connections, the worst possible fate of a Hawai'ian would be "Maha 'Oi" (or maybe its "Maka 'Oi-- sorry I'm not sure) which means they're looked on with "sharp eyes" or they're presumptous ("Sharp templed"). In this vein, the name I like the best is "Lau Hulu", which is a figurative name for one from another locality. It literally refers to wrapping banana leaves around ti leaves to cook something in, i.e. "outsider".
Just "run it up the flagpole and see who salutes" or "put it on the train and see who gets off at Westport".
Aloha. |
Bwop |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 5:54:25 PM
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Ah, I love reading Sarah's notes on language! I agree with her reasoning, and also note that Hawaiian is a poetic language, where the meaning (either the obvious or the kaona, hidden) is more important than the literal translation.
If you are a little uncomfortable with Halenahele because it is similar to a resort property, perhaps you could modify it to "Kahalenahele".
I know you want to keep it short, but many of my Hawaiian friends have very long names with short 'nicknames'. For example, one has a name which translates as "The turtle that dances on the sparkling waters". She goes by 'Hula', which is the 'dance' portion of her name. |
Puna |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2003 : 8:50:34 PM
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Just a tiny funny aside: My name, Kaplan, is very easy for Islanders to deal with. They get the Ka part immediately (as people on the Mainland don't - Ca, Ka Cha, whatever) and they can hack the lack of internal vowels pretty quickly, too. Probably should be Kapalana, but they gloss right over that. Then they put an Island emphasis on the syllables, so it comes out Ka-PLAN,which is fine by me. When I was in Stockholm for a while, I walked down Kaplansbäcke in Gamla Stan (the old city), which means "Kaplan's alley" so I must have had some relatives there in the 17th century lurking in an alley. Probably taking out the rich folk's garbage or something. OTW, don't know where na poe came from. Anyway, my last name is close enough to Hwn for their quick understanding.
...Reid
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2003 : 09:02:42 AM
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Yes, I like "Kahalenahele." Has a good feel, real nice ring to it, kind of rolls off the tongue. And, it is more grammatically correct to include the article. Probably fits the family name better, too, in that it has the feel of referring to a specific house, which is appropriate to how the family got its name: from building a particular house.
-Sarah |
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