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akahele
Aloha
USA
33 Posts |
 Posted - 02/05/2004 : 01:49:24 AM
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Aloha,
Here's a topic that probably has as many answers as members in this community. Here is my situation: my work involves travel and often the hours don't resemble the conventional 9 to 5 routine. Add to that a little one running around the house and the other normal routine things that occupy life (like surfing the taropatch forums  ) and pretty soon the amount of time I have to practice on the days I am home dwindle to a fraction of an hour. So my question to all of you out there is this: how do you make the most of your practice time? Do you follow a fixed routine e.g. drills, review old pieces then practice new pieces? Or do you concentrate on new material first then toss in some review if you have time? Do you practice pieces at speed or slowed down or faster than normal? Also how do you keep songs straight in your head? I swear my brain must be scrambled because I could be playing a piece then suddenly suffer a "senior moment" and be totally lost - the mind just goes blank. Other times I might be in the middle of a song and the fingers just start playing a different song. This probably wouldn't be so bad if I was good and could just segue into the other song like it was intended all along but my brain can't work that fast. Some days all I have is 30 minutes and if I review 3 songs (each 2 minutes long) 3 times then I've used up 18 minutes (3x2x3-18) so I'm left with about 10 minutes to work on new material. If I don't practice the old stuff, then when I do play them I find those "senior moments" increase in frequency. Devoting a short time each day to work on a new song makes learning one a drawn out process... seems like a catch 22 world.
I realize that each person probably has their own unique "system" that works for them and what works for one person often doesn't work for another, however I feel that if we all share our individual "system" in this forum, others may find tidbits that they can adapt or incorporate into their own system.
I'd love to share with you my system but I don't have one - maybe that's part of my problem but I tend to practice the pieces I feel like playing on a given day then work on the current "new song" project. Other days I'll concentrate on the new song and toss in some review of older material at the end if I have the time. Lately I've added an occasional recording session at the computer - mainly so I can listen to myself with a critical ear without being distracted by actually having to play the guitar at the same time. This has highlighted a problem with keeping a steady tempo during some of the songs so I'm back to working with a metronome more. The hardest problem I have is when listening, I can say "that sucks" - it doesn't sound "right" but I can't identify what I'm doing wrong. Its times like this that I could really use a live teacher! Well any opinions, comments, suggestions are welcome!
Mahalo nui loa,
Clif
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launie
Aloha
USA
23 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 10:02:54 AM
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I wonder if I'm doing something wrong. I don't feel I'm up to tune level yet, so I practice bits and pieces the whole time. (This is why I love Keoki Kahumoku's DVD). Basically, when I pick up the guitar, I run through what could be called endless exercises: practicing alternating bass lines, doing those scaley type things going up and down the neck, work on turnarounds, that kind of thing. And then to finish off a practice, I run through any old songs I can remember that I feel like playing (needless to say, the overwhelming majority being non-Hawaiian) trying to incorporate everything I'd been working on up to then.
I guess the reason I do it this way is because I'm so new to finger picking and feel I need to get some muscle memory going in the old fingers. On those rare occasions I manage to sit in with slack key players, everything seems to slot neatly into place - I can't lead anything, at least to start with, but I can join in and eventually take a break.
It's all good fun, though!
Jamie |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 10:57:26 AM
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Great topic and an area where I could use some help. I feel like I am very slow in building a slack key repertoire because I usually learn songs from tab. On the other hand, I never dedicate regular, solid practice time to tab. You see a problem with this equation? It does not add up.
So when I really get motivated, I'll sit down and work through tab. Unfortunately, I cannot remember the last time I did this.
Most of the time, I noodle a lot. I pick up the guitar whenever I can and play through a song I do know or just pick different patterns to get the fingers moving.
In the absence of working with tab, I've tried to play different G, D, A, C, and E positions (in taropatch) in an attempt to improve my kanikapila skills. Whenever I go to Hawai`i, it becomes too evident that I this is something that I need to work on.
I've also been playing with other people lately. Playing with other people forces me to think about dynamics, key changes, learning song lyrics and what slack key (lead) varitions can be played over different chords.
There are just so many areas where one can practice: music theory, left hand chording, right hand picking, learning from tab, learning from listening, practicing by yourself, practicing with others... It must require tremendous discipline to dedicate time to each aspect, a discipline I admittedly lack. |
Andy |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 1:05:27 PM
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Clif,
One small trick may be to keep a song straight in your head is to practice it from back to front. In other words, practice the ending. Then, practice the middle all the way to the end. Then practice the beginning to end. This is a method that David Russell (classical) employs and my former teacher Jack Sanders also employed. That way, you know the ending inside and out so you always know where you're going. The further along you are in a song, the more comfortable you are.
Another fun thing to do since you travel a lot is to listen to recordings. Whatever level you are at, there are always things to listen to in recordings. What chords are being played? How does the player approach dynamics? What is the structure of the song? What techniques are being used? How does the song make you feel? If you're learning a song that is previously recorded, listen to the recording in the car or on the train or plane.
One last thing that might help is to jot down a practice timeline when you sit down. If you have half an hour, divide it up into five minute chunks. That may increase practice efficiency.
take care,
Darin |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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Jeff Watkins
Aloha
37 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 2:31:01 PM
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Aloha no
I have made kika ki ho'alu practice a regular, required part of my day, and schedule other things around it. Try it, and you'll see it isn't that hard to do, and important family issues don't suffer. During that time, I focus on what I feel like doing. If its learning a new song, I throw myself into it. Same with scales or modulation or playing familiar stuff. In this way, I am not pressed to cram too much into my time, and I cover more thoroughly a given activity. When I discover a tripping point, usually caused by a bad fingering habit, I change focus and practice the right way to do it until its automatic, then revert back to the practice at hand. Always be easy on yourself. Kulia i ka nu'u.
E malama pono
Jeff |
Jeff Watkins |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 3:49:17 PM
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Aloha e Akahele,
Wow, I can relate to all of your long list of quandaries concerning practice.
I just had one thought, however, concerning what Andy said:
There are just so many areas where one can practice: music theory, left hand chording, right hand picking, learning from tab, learning from listening, practicing by yourself, practicing with others...
...and he's right. So what's a person to do?
I find that if I can define a *focus* for myself, I can define my practice periods a little better. One can't do everything, so one decides what to work on for a while—whether it's a week, or 4 weeks, or 6 months... depending on the size of the learning curve.
It's a little like trying to imagine what a teacher would plan for you, if you had one :-) Kind of like thinking of it as a study module. You know, identify an area that interests you and in which you'd like to get better, and then focus on that somewhat consistently for several weeks, or long enough to see some progress. Then you can re-evaluate, and either continue, or redefine it.
aloha,
Sarah
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 4:30:29 PM
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I try to follow some basic ideas/structure, 'cause when I didn't use a structure I wasted a lot of time and learned/progressed little.
I try to get an hour on five or six times a week. (For shorter times periods my routine is different.) No matter how much time I spend, I don't sit in front of the tv and screw around on the guitar - I find that FOR ME that is a huge waiste of time. What I do: Little warm up - prallel sixths, short scale runs -- then I spend 10 minutes or so on 1 technical issue. Right now it's smooth argeggios. Changes with the skills I want to learn or improve. Then I go to a new piece -- I usually work up my own arrangements, though occasionally work off of someone else's TABS. (Before I started to do my own arrangeing, it was all working from TABS, then slowly tring to figure stiff off CD's.) I try to TAB out a "rough" draft of my arrangement, like a lead sheet with special passages worked out. I spend about 20 minutes on this, unless I just get caught up in the activity. Then I go to some pieces that are in my "worked out, but learning how to play right" stage. I prefer to play the piece the whole thing through to keep the whole thing working in context. Then I go back and isolate "problem areas" going over them slowly and picking up speed. Finish with the piece as a whole again. That takes 20 - 40 minutes. Then I might finish up with some "older" pieces I play for fun or to keep in memory. I do record myself and listen to it the next day as a way of checking what I'm doing. Once a week I devote to repetoire, and I typically go through my songs in the order they are in my binders, playing for memory or trying out new improvisations. Sometimes I've spent an hour and a half working on one piece. Somedays, I just can't face the heavy work, so I just play stuff for fun. Every couple of weeks I play for about an hour straight just improvising into a tape recorder. Most of it is crap, but occasionally something good sneaks out and I try to go back and "capture" that. If nothing else, it gets my improvising.
Short practice sessions typically focus on one song, then end with 1 or 2 "for fun."
As to memory. I have said over and over -- memory is not essentially a musical skill. In fact performers almost never played by memory until Mozart started to show off. Damned geniouses ruin it for the rest of us. I use TAB lead sheet to remind me of the music. The issue is not whether you use music or not -- it's if you know the song or not. I know performers who use music and who don't -- it you don't know the song, using TAB or music ain't gonna make a difference. When I play at a restaurant, I'm doing 2 hours or so of playing - no way I'm gonna keep all that straight with TAB to give me hints.
Finally, for this post at least, I don't think I could make real progress unless I take lessons -- and that's not even so much for what I learn from my teacher, as it is having the structure and support. I do play with a friend or two, but it just isn't the same for me. Right now I find that about once a month works well.
For me, I compltely enjoy what I'm ding -- and I love the sounds that come out of the wooden box -- but my philosophy of life is that if I want to get good at somehing, I have to work it at.
Raymond Stovich
San Jose |
Edited by - RJS on 02/05/2004 4:35:54 PM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 6:11:29 PM
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If you're really limited to 30 minutes here and there then I'd say the first priority would be to decide what it is you want to accomplish. To you want to try to build up a repertoire of songs, do you want to just noodle around with a slack key style, or do you want to be able to strum along while other players play the fancy stuff? Pick one and focus on it. If you want to learn songs then you might spend 10 minutes working on getting one song down at a steady tempo, 10 minutes on problem areas in other songs, and 10 minutes on building the ability to play a new song. If you want to develop your ability to noodle around then spend 20 minutes with Keoki's DVD and 10 minutes practice on your own. If you want to be able to strum along then spend 15 minutes on learning new chords and 15 minutes strumming along to a CD (you can find chord sheets for many Hawaiian songs on the Web). Whatever you focus on, and however you decide to divide up your time, try and do it consistently at least 3 times a week, record your progress on both tape and paper so you can keep yourself accountable, and accept the fact that your progress is likely to be steady but slow. Leave at least one guitar out on a stand as admirable suggested and see if it's at all possible to schedule time with yourself so you can extend your practice time...even 60 minutes is a quantum leap from 30 as far as what you'll be able to accomplish. (Perhaps you could get up 30 minutes earlier than usual to practice or give up some other leisure time...it's all a matter of priorities.)
Hope this is helpful (to someone!)
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 6:26:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
(Perhaps you could get up 30 minutes earlier than usual to practice or give up some other leisure time...it's all a matter of priorities.)
What? Give up drinking beer and watching reruns of "Baywatch-Hawaii"!?!
Boy, some people are DEDICATED! |
Puna |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 7:00:04 PM
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This is for RJS -
Raymond, I sent this through your profile link to email and it bounced. Perhaps you'll see this.
RJS, I'm a regular on the Taro Patch and I know that you have quite a bit of experience. I'm not a beginner, but I wouldn't say I'm accomplished. I regularly play in Taro Patch (tuned down to F because of my guitar and strings), but I really like Atta's C and would like to try it for a while. I know Cyril P and he and I have talked about this. I asked Cyril why he uses this C rather than C Wahine or C Mauna Loa and he couldn't explain it other than he learned it from Atta Issacs. Of course he had to learn all of the positions and said that he rarely plays in anything else. My problem is that I'm an analytical guy and I work best from tab and hearing the tune. I need to know where the scales and turnarounds are and what works and what doesn't. I've learned a few tunes in Taro Patch and even "created" a couple on my own. I've resisted changing tunings because I'd have to relearn everything if I wanted to play the songs that I know without having to flipflop between tu! nings. I think I have some old posts from you about Atta's C and I've gotten some stuff from the Alternate Tuning application. I guess I'm asking for your advise on an approach to trying this tuning, and whether or not to try one of the other C or D tunings. Thanks. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2004 : 10:22:57 PM
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Dear TB/CM,
Three comments:
1) I learned a bit of Atta's C (CGDGBE) - As you can see it's not that far off from either Taro Patch (DGDGBD) or Drop C (CGDGBD) --
I learned the Atta's C because there were three songs that I wanted to learn and the only TAB arrangements I could find were in Atta's C. Unfortunately, since then I've only run across 2 more. I played around with it for a while - it is a pretty tuning - but decided that if I were going to use a C tuning, I'd go with the Drop C. George Kahumoku introduced me to it. It's just easier for me 'cause I play so much in Taro Patch - and I get the C in the bass.
2) A couple of people have asked me about C tuning - and my best opinion is: if you really want to get into a C tuning, try Keola's C (C Wahine.) (CGDGBE) It's a very rich sounding tuning, it's laid out so you can get some deep, "flavorful" sounds, and there's more TAB commonly available for it, especially if you like Keola's style. Otherwise, Drop C is a pretty easy reach if you know Taro Patch.
3.) It sounds like you're getting pretty grounded in Taro Patch. A couple of years ago during some lesson time with Ozzie, I asked him to teach me the fundamentals of a C Tuning. We talked about it a fair amount and Ozzie, at that time, strongly urged me to focus on Taro Patch and get really good in it. I resisted the urge to go to another tuning for over 3 years. Now I play almost entirely in Taro Patch by my choice, except when I absolutely can't live without that low C. I'm finally getting to know my way around Taro Patch and am still discovering much about it. I'm glad I took Ozzie's advice. The time and energy I would have given to learning different tunings let me learn one in even more depth. And frankly both my time and energy are very precious and I try to use them wisely. That's not to discourage you from following your own bliss, even if it leads to different tunings. But it is to encourage you to enjot the satisfaction of geting really good at one.
Hope this is useful.
Whatever you decide - I hope you enjoy the adventure -- "uncharted territory" is always at least a bit exciting.
Raymond
San Jose
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akahele
Aloha
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 02:02:16 AM
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Aloha all,
WOW - I'm humbled by the generous sharing of ideas. Mahalo to all that have contributed (and to those that may in the future.)
Darin (dl584)
I like your suggestion of learning a new song backwards - maybe I would have stumbled onto this great idea one day (just like a room full of monkeys sitting at computers might one day write a best seller  ) This is something I think will work for me - I'll try it on the next song I learn.
admirable
gee, I wish I had three guitars..I'm working on getting a second just so I can have some contrast between nylon and steel strings. I do keep the one guitar I have in a readily accessible location which does help in picking it up to play for a few minutes while dinner is cooking etc. I'd have to agree with Raymond tho - I can't practice in front of the TV. As a kid I couldn't do homework in front of the TV either - call it limited processing power between the ears. I'm a one track at a time kind of person. I think you summed it up best with the following:
quote:
Just don't stop. That's the key.
I'll keep plugging away - if I look at the long timeframe I can definitely say that I've improved over the last five years - six years ago I couldn't play anything on the guitar
Raymond & cpatch
Thanks for more ideas - I'll try and incorporate some of the ideas and will hopefully post something down the line regarding any progress. As to finding an instructor - that would be great except living out here in the desert - well lets just say I haven't found anyone else with a slack key interest. I keep looking though and maybe one day I'll find someone.
Mahalo everyone,
Clif
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2004 : 5:43:29 PM
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Reid,
I have that - I thought I got it from RJS, but I guess it's yours.
Thanks. |
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knute
Aloha
6 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 5:18:40 PM
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| I never used to practice. I just played guitar. What came out was always fun. I am very good at finger picking styles and am a very quick learner. If I can hear it, I can play it. I've been playing forever and have been playing in alternate tunings for years. Lately, I have been taking lessons and have to cover certain material in a certain amount of time. I have a really hard time finding time to sit down and practice. I usually have to be home alone because my kids complain that I am to loud. My oldest son, who thinks Korn is cool, really hates flamenco and slack key. Its tough finding time to practice. |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 02/12/2004 : 5:58:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by knuteI usually have to be home alone because my kids complain that I am to loud. My oldest son, who thinks Korn is cool, really hates flamenco and slack key. Its tough finding time to practice.
Hah...payback time! Wait until your kids are home then play often and loud. Consider taking up the ukulele. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 02/12/2004 6:00:34 PM |
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