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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
 Posted - 04/26/2004 : 8:29:07 PM
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I was thinking of geting one of the portable digital recorder -- Taman, Korg, etc.?
Anybody have experience with them things? Suggestions, cautions, etc?
Maholo nui
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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frozen poi
Aloha
USA
25 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2004 : 9:53:57 PM
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Aloha Raymond,
I use one made by Fostex and love it. Its the MR-8 and goes for around $300.00 . I like the way it uses a Compact Flash Card for memory as I can also use it if needed for my digital camera on vacations. I would suggest 256 mb or higher , the more tracks you record and the longer the song the more memory.It comes with a 128 mb card. Sound quality is excellent for the money and its easy to use. Has a lot of features I have'nt used yet but its great for putting down ideas and stuff, and practicing with me myself and I, playing all our favorite instuments.
Good luck picking one , they're all good. My budget allowed for this one and I'm not sorry I got it
Aloha , Al |
Edited by - frozen poi on 04/26/2004 9:56:06 PM |
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David
Akahai
92 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2004 : 11:39:33 PM
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From my limited experience, you seem to have three options open at the present time, and soon a forth. You can go the minidisk route, which at the present time seems to be dragging behind in the technology race with lower memory capacity. They are very affordable though. I've heard the Sharp units recommened because you can adjust the recording level on the fly. It's anticipated that they will be obsolete in a couple years.
Soon to be announced will be Hi-MD which will offer 1 Gig of memory for about $2. This is interesting. I have heard that Sony is developing an interesting and effective compression scheme for this anticipated system.
Here's Sony's Hi-MD site:http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/index.html
Next are the solid state flash card systems like frozen poi mentioned, and they seem great. The only drawback is the relatively high cost of the flash cards themselves. The cost of a 512MB card is about $100 on ebay. I certainly have enjoyed this type of memory used in my digital photography though.
The last and presently seemingly the most interesting are the disk based units ... like portable hard drives. The unit I'm thinking of is the Archos Gmini 120. It's like a portable 20GB hard drive and mp3 player, allowing you to store information in various formats, and play in mp3, WMA, or wave file formats. It's got a compact flash card slot, and an adapter allowing other card formats, for transfering music or JPEG images as well. It has a digital stereo line in port as well as a built in microphone. I have heard the built in mike and it sounded great to me.
Here's the link:
http://www.archos.com/products/prw_500449_specs.html
One note of caution. I have heard that the earlier units recorded a faint noise of the hard drive spinning. You might find a bargain in preceeding units and be disappointed. The Gmini 120 goes for about $270 - $300. |
Edited by - David on 04/27/2004 12:47:16 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2004 : 12:38:15 AM
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I have the Tascam PortaStudio 5 (also around $300) which I like. It records onto Compact Flash cards in MP3 format and also allows you to play along with an MP3. Other features include nice, built-in 16-voice MIDI playback and the ability to create backing tracks with it.
If you just want to record yourself (and/or others) playing in a simple stereo mix I would tend to lean towards something like the Archos that David mentioned in conjunction with an external stereo mic. You can't beat it for portability, battery life, and capacity. Or go with the even smaller GMini 220:
http://www.archos.com/products/overview/gmini_220.html
(I'd recommend the iPod but right now it's recording capabilities are limited.) You might also find the following product interesting in conjunction with something like the Archos...it's a fully portable (AC or batteries) mixer that is relatively inexpensive and which comes from a company that has a well-earned reputation for high quality at a low price (I own one):
http://www.music123.com/Behringer-Eurorack-MXB1002-i64142.music |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 04/27/2004 1:36:08 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2004 : 1:07:28 PM
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I recorded a CD on my dad's Tascam 788, an eight-track digital recorder with attached CD burner. After about 10 minutes of tutoring, I was recording like crazy. Now I want one of my own.
Not a coincidence that I just sold my four-track cassette recorder on Ebay yesterday. Recording, even hobby recording, is a lot more enjoyable when you don't have to constantly rewind the tape.
Ray mentioned buying a recorder, but didn't mention what kind. If it's just for putting down on a table and recording a live performance in your living room or at a performance, then you don't need multi-track. If you want to do a multi-track recording session, then I think a four-track is okay, but eight track is more versatile. With four tracks, you usually have guitar, lead vocal, backup vocal and lead guitar. But you don't have room for percussion, keyboard, bass or uke. That's where the eight track really shines.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2004 : 3:19:44 PM
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Hi -
You didn't mention what you wanted the recorder for.
If you are doing "field recordings" to learn tunes -- try a minidisc. It's hard to find one that accepts a mic, though. Obsolete soon? Sure, maybe. But there's a huge user base in Asia and Europe, so the media is likely to be around for a while. And they sound terrific.
I'm also curious about the Archos -- enough so that I'm considering selling my high-end Sony Minidisc. Why? Cuz I use a Mac, and the bugger doesn't support the Mac OS via the USB port. Offers cheerfully considered.....
Portable CD recorders are fine -- but you make a permament recording, or not-biodegradable landfill item, with every disc. Are you sure you want to keep that marginal recording of a late-night kanikapila for all eternity?
For table-top multi-track recording, first define your needs --- and future needs -- and shop accordingly. Tons of choices, most good, a few excellent.
The super protable flash memory units are very cool as sketch pads, and can double as field recorders. Like everyone says, memory is a prob.
I've seen a bunch of simple digital voice recorders lately at sessions -- very cheap, very portable, and ample memory and quality if all you want to do is cop a tune or two.
Happy recording,
Mark |
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rossasaurus
Lokahi
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2004 : 04:51:03 AM
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I love my minidisc. Sony M707, originally $175 at Target. Small package, stereo mic/lin inputs(shared jack), optical in/out, select from 80 mins, 160 mins or 320 mins recording time, long battery life(single AA), quiet, discreet. Net MD models transfer digitally (if you've got a PC, no worky with Mac).
I've used it mostly to record lessons and workshops, as it grabs all those highs you miss with a cassette recorder, and I use it to record our choir.
I've found a good MD review site I'll post later. Has a chart of Features VS brand/model. Helped me choose one with mic input(careful, as Mark noted, not all have it). Some Sony models allow manual Record level changes.
I've read somewhere the new format Hi-MD will be backward compatible(playback at least).
I just bought a used one on ebay, Sony MZ-70 for $71, since the Sony 707 died. Apparently some have early laser failure!
Oh my god it's 2 AM!
Aloha,
Ross |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2004 : 11:37:28 AM
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I'm going to second Ross's comments and repeat my standard advice: currently there's no better field recorder/notebook format than minidisc (unless you really need multitrack function or high-speed upload to computer). I can carry my Sony MZ-B100 in a shirt pocket--and it's one of the bigger portables, with built-in stereo mikes and a speaker. Its only shortcoming for music recording is lack of recording-level controls, but I've never had a problem with the auto level control, and I've recorded several hundred hours of concerts, practice sessions, and interviews with my units. 80-minute discs currently run well under $2 each in 5-10 packs, so archiving is not a big expense, and I've burned any number of CDs of live performances, and they sound just fine--not pro/studio quality, but better than you'd think for tech that costs under $400.
Last summer, when by a fluke I had George Kahumoku all to myself for an Augusta workshop, I'd put the B100 (with a fresh disc) on the floor, push the big red button, and forget about it for the rest of the morning. The recorder heard everything I did, maybe even more, since it doesn't have tinitis.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 04/28/2004 11:38:17 AM |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2004 : 7:08:37 PM
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It's my understanding that while minidisc is very useful for documentation purposes (where you don't plan on altering the recording later), once you pull it into the computer and start applying EQ or effects or converting to MP3 you start running into problems due to the form of digital compression it uses. Can anyone who uses minidisc confirm/deny this?
Also, here's another hard-drive based alternative that offers a variety of recording formats, including lossless:
http://www.iriveramerica.com/products/iHP-120.asp
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
Edited by - cpatch on 04/28/2004 7:11:41 PM |
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rossasaurus
Lokahi
USA
306 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2004 : 9:07:35 PM
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Aloha Craig,
Since I use a Mac and not a PC, I have to use analog out from my MiniDisc to my Griffin iMic Analog to Digital Converter before I can manipulate the audio with amadeus or whatever other software on the Mac.
Mostly I edit/chop, boost/cut and do fades, and I've always ended-up without distortion; any that I can notice anyway.
When I first got it and after recording a lesson with Patrick Landeza, I listened when I got home and I could hear kids talking/playing on the recording.....from the playground three blocks away from his house!
I've heard other stories of automatic gain control surging, but I've never experienced it.
Ross |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 12:42:21 AM
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I've done the same kind of things Ross has and not noticed anything you wouldn't expect to hear on any recording. To hear an example, click on the link at
http://www.cloudnet.com/~rletson/Christine.html
It's a 64K MP3 from a minidisc recording (MZ-B100, internal mikes, mono original) that was transferred to PC via analog, extensively edited in CoolEdit2000, maybe level-boosted (I can't recall), and saved out as MP3. (Don't blame the technology for the playing.)
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 1:50:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cpatch
It's my understanding that while minidisc is very useful for documentation purposes (where you don't plan on altering the recording later), once you pull it into the computer and start applying EQ or effects or converting to MP3 you start running into problems due to the form of digital compression it uses. Can anyone who uses minidisc confirm/deny this?
This does not match my experience at all.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Konabob
`Olu`olu
USA
928 Posts |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 3:48:55 PM
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Kona, you're conflating two kinds of "minidisc." The kind that we're talking about is a magneto-optical read-write medium and looks like an underfed floppy disk (square plastic shell, little shutter protecting the R/W surface). You may be thinking of those small-size Mini-CD-R or -DVD-Rs (naked silver disk, 80 mm diameter), which *is* readable by a computer CD/DVD drive. No connection aside from the annoyingly similiar nomenclature.
As for lack of Sony support for Mac, that's only an issue for the NetMD feature, which is Sony's crippled and clumsy download-to-MD system, aimed at the MP3 crowd. In Sony's scheme, you can "check out" tracks from the PC and transfer them to MD by USB, but you can't "check in" or high-speed upload recordings that you've made yourself. This has been a point of irritation with MD users since the introduction of NetMD, and it is at least partially addressed in the Hi-MD spec, which *will* allow USB uploads of tracks recorded via the mike or line input. Or so they say, but Sony's product developers seem dominated by the content side of the corporation, which is fixated on the "problem" of piracy to the point that they have crippled their consumer-level recording devices--for example, there are no non-pro portable MD recorders with digital audio output.
Well, enough rant. I still have hopes for Hi-MD.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 04/29/2004 3:54:23 PM |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04/29/2004 : 4:58:07 PM
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Just to clarify -
The Mini Disc uses a "lossy" compression scheme to cram lotsa audio into a littlle space. The theory is, essentially, "you won't miss what you can't hear."
Well, right. But, it's 'way better than cassette, and 'way 'way better than a large portion of MP3's, at least to my tone-deaf ears.
IF you are lucky enough to be able to digitally upload from your minidisc to a computer, you may need to convert the file before your audio editor will recognize it. File conversion is a sometimes thing... some programs handle it better than others.
However, streaming the music into your computer in real time via the analog outs is exactly the same as recording from any other source. What you get depends on your audio editor (and hardware.) The ATrac compression doesn't enter into the equation at all in this case.
Theoretically you can record a lovely 24 bit 96 kHz audio document from your lowly minidisc... not that it would do you any good.
Yeah, a digital out would be swell. And yeah, Sony's policy sucks as far as utility for field recording goes.
But guess what? Given the oddities inherent in converting audio files, a significant percentage of the pro studio crowd will routinely go the analog out/analog in route when interfacing incompatible digital formats...
Another dirty little secret revealed.
cheers,
Mark |
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