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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
 Posted - 06/19/2002 : 10:36:52 AM
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The tab has been removed and cannot be downloaded at this time. 6/25 -Admin
Here's the tab I worked out for a Molehu duet. Hopefully it does not have too many errors. Formatting from the tab software to scanning to .pdf was kind of cumbersome. I'm sure I didn't do it the best way which is why the file is much larger than I'd like.
Anyways, hope you give it a try and have fun with it.
Aloha,
Andy
P.s. I know there are some qualified people around so I welcome any corrections, comments... especially since my music theory is not too strong.
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Bruddah Chrispy
Lokahi
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 11:20:42 AM
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Looks excellent, Andy! I'm gonna try it out at lunch today. Mahalo nui loa!
BTW - Should we consider setting aside a place for tabs on the board? Are there any copyright issues if we do?
Aloha a hui hou,
Chris P. |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 11:27:27 AM
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I'm not sure about copyright laws. Anyone know??? I don't know if I'm violating anything since mine is based on Ozzie's published arrangement.
Would be nice to share some tabs. My assumption is that it's okay if they are your own. It'd be great if someone could shed some light...
Hope it works for you, but now we know you're modest. Sounds like you've been playing a pretty good duet already!
Andy |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 1:17:45 PM
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Yes, I used Power Tab Edit so here is the MIDI file: molehu.mid (No longer accessible.) -Admin
The slides sound a little strange but hopefully you get the idea.
I re-did the midi file so that it sounds better. Also found an error in the tab, last note of the 14th measure - should be on the 3rd string. Corrected
Andy |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 2:39:53 PM
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quote:
Anyhoos... try this. Download the nifty, freeware program PDF995 from http://www.pdf995.com/download.html (It is freeware...
Very cool, jwn. Thanks for letting me know about these. I'll definitely be checking them out.
Andy |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 3:25:13 PM
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i think this swapping of music is great! thanks, andy!!
jwn,
it sounds like you've thought of copyright issues more than i have... so, if i hand out transcriptions of some of iz's solos, is that a violation? if i rearrange a slackkey song into a different tuning and change it a bit, does that make it clean?
(i know that you're not a lawyer; i'm not even pretending that your advice is gospel... but it sounds like you've heard more than me).
aloha,
keith
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 4:08:06 PM
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Copyright law is *very* tricky. We went through this when rmmga put out its CD 2 collection (a 6 CD set) of group member's guitar pieces. Basically an arrangement of *anyone's* song is copyrightable - it does not have to be "traditional". The problem is, that it has to be a certain percent different from the original. I could look up what that is, but it would be a pain. Also, that difference is in the eye of the beholder to a large extent.
Sarah arranged Lili`u's "Ka Ipo Nohea", in a slack key idiom, for the CD. She played and sang it and I recorded it and rmmga copied it (badly) to the final CD mixdown. In order to be pono, she obtained permission from the organization that published "The Queen's Songbook", from which the words and choral version of the song came. They insisted on reviewing the recording before making a decision about whether to allow her to use the *lyrics*. The arrangement is legally Sarah's, as she sang the melody, but the guitar notes were conceived by her. She had to add a note that said that they retained ownership of the lyrics.
Anyway, it would be very bad to post note-for-note tabs of somebody else's arrangement. Unless you obtained the person's explicit permission (and you better be able to prove it), or paid for it through one of several clearing houses. It is clearly OK to post tabs of a duet part of a song, as that is a *completely* different arrangement.
...Reid
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 4:43:07 PM
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Using PDF995 and pdfEdit995, I made the correction to the 14th measure. I lost the kahako and don't know why the title is off center, but the file size is significantly smaller.
Andy |
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jcfergus
Aloha
USA
30 Posts |
Posted - 06/19/2002 : 6:47:19 PM
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I have been looking for precedents set at other tab sites and have found the following.
OLGA.NET was forced off-line in the late 90's for copyright violation. They are very much in business now, but soliciting support for their legal fund and appear to still be at risk. They have removed nearly all lyrics substituting non-alpha characters for all but occasional words to provide synchronization between the chords and lyrics. You are on your own to fill in the (literal) blanks.
I found the following on the Australian OLGA website but have been unable to validate the accuracy. (I don't recommend going to the site as it has some pretty nasty pop-ups including Gator).
quote:
OLGA's status: OLGA (the 'On-Line Guitar Archive') is a library of documents relating to the playing of guitar. The archive is for research and educational purposes. Files are made available only as part of the archive, they are not published. All files are made available at no cost from OLGA. OLGA makes it clear that similar restrictions apply to all use of materials found in the archive. As such, OLGA falls under fair use exceptions of U.S. CODE Title 17 (1976)
Subsequent Use: Similarly, files found at OLGA must be used for educational purposes and never for profit. Individuals making use of OLGA materials beyond the limits of fair use may be liable for copyright infringement. If sharing with others, always credit the work's author. If you have benefitted from a post or archived material, e-mail the author to thank them - it's the only reward they get.
A significantly different, and somewhat frightening (read "1984") interpretation can be found here:
http://palimpsest.stanford.edu/mirrors/faq/copyright/myths/part1
And yet another, less Draconian opinion at:
http://www.fplc.edu/tfield/cOpyNet.htm
It seems that then intent of usage by the members of this forum would fall into the Copyright Fair Use criteria, as we are sharing for primarily educational purposes and our sharing does not cause the loss of income on copyrighted works, but it also seems that the music industry in general is using every legal option avalable to control the dissemination of music in any form.
If you look at the approach by Mark Hanson, who provides note-for-note transcriptions in his Accent on Music books, he has obtained permission from each of the artists to reproduce their performance and all of this is credited.
IMHO, it would seem that we wouldn't have a problem as long as:
- We don't post transcriptions that are identical to existing, published transcriptions,
- The use of the transcritptions is clearly stated as being for private, educational use
- We only post those transcripts that we have performed by-ear ourselves
[*]and we give credit to the original artist(s)and recording where appropriate
Just my two cents...
Jim
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2002 : 10:42:17 AM
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OK, no more legal stuff from me :-)
Mahalo nui loa, Andy. The duet tab is more than just fun, it is educational, and you did it the way I would want to, if I knew enough - you made it into a song in its own right.
Looking at it and comparing with Ozzie's, you just didn't simply do what Uncle Sol said, you also were creative. Last night, Sarah played it and said that the first 4 bars of the song proper sounded a bit like Radio Hula. That's cool; you were doing what Russell Letson said: using slack key "vocabulary". It also stands by itself as a tune. One of the things I do not like about jams is that, unless you are *good*, there is a lot of boring backing up - rythm, occasional fills, etc. Your duet part really gives the second player something to be interested in. My friends, John Thomas and Martin McCann, although extraordinarily good guitarists (they recently spent 3 days being tutored by Tommy Emmanuel, Certified Guitar Player, at Jorma Kaukonen's)refuse to jam. The say they will only play something if it is a real duet, or multiplayer, part
As an education for me, each measure of yours mostly uses the same (or another) note from the chord in question, but you change the order in which they are played, so you fill out Ozzie's partial chords - a real Principle. Also, you use slides and chimes, where appropriate, to give a more interesting sound. I also liked the 12-14-12 h/po in the 6th measure because that puts an unexpected E into a G chord and that E is part of the previous C chord. Very nice reference.
You did good.
...Reid
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Bruddah Chrispy
Lokahi
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2002 : 11:03:47 AM
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Just to clarify the whole thing (or confuse it utterly), I sent email to Ozzie to asking him if he had any feelings on us posting the tabs for a second guitar for Molehu.
I cc'd Andy on the email. If we get a response (and he usually responds bumbai) I'll post it.
Aloha a hui hou,
Chris P. |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2002 : 2:06:00 PM
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I read somewhere quite some time ago that if a piece copies more than 4 sequential measures from another piece, it's infringing on the copyright of the other piece. I can't recall where I read this, however -- and there are additional ways to infringe, so it isn't the whole story.
Sarah
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2002 : 2:08:10 PM
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RE: Copyrights and wrongs.
Gotta chime in, I've been down this road many times before.
Thanks, Braddah John (no relation, but hey, we share the same last name) for pointing out that this is an extremely slippery slope.
I work at a bunch of seminars and camps around the country – the policy is simply that no one can pass out TAB that they don't have the rights to. How do you secure the rights? Either you write the song, you personally arrange a song in the public domain or you get written permission from the copyright holder. Period.
Fair use doesn't cut it I'm afraid. Even for educational institutions.
The bottom line? If you have any doubts at all about whether or not to post TAB, or MP3s, or anything else on the 'net, don't.
I've seen too many well-meaning websites go down over this issue. If we start publishing TAB by posting it – or even posting that we will send it as an e-mail attachment, we run that risk.
Sorry to sound so heavy. I'm one of those who have been directly affected by copyright infringement and illegal copying and distribution – I think the guy that started Napster should be in jail. 
Ya want free music?
Just pick up your guitar and play.
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2002 : 9:28:04 PM
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OK, the legal issue is *done*, as far as I am concerned. Mark said it all; let it ride, OK?
AND, Sarah and I are a skosh sad that Andy's totally pono gift to all of us was overwhelmed by the legal-beagle scuffling. This is pu`uwai and mele, yeah?
Moving on...
So, Andy, you also illuminated something I had never noticed before about Ozzie's supposedly simple piece. I was puzzled about why you went back to the 1st and 2nd frets for the C chord, and I substituted Ozzie's 5th fret C chord from the same piece. Lo and behold, the picking pattern is the same, as is the *tone* (with the inclusion of the 7th fret, 1st string note). So, Oz was echoing the C chords in the first place, which is a kind of subtle artistry. Which, dumb me, I would never have noticed if you had never done this.
Also, I played Led's "Radio Hula" and it does sound lots like what you did in the 1st, 2nd and 4th measures of the duet, especially if you alter the tempo. The 3rd is pure Ray :-) BUT, in NO WAY, is it like Mark Hanson's transcription. You just captured the essence.
Thanks again...
...Reid
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 12:17:02 AM
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Thank you everyone for the compliments. Reid - some of your comments went over my head but thank you too. 
Hopefully you all can use the tab. I actually had also emailed Ozzie the tab a few days ago and await his reply.
Bottom line is that TaroPatch.net will not become a tab trading/lawyer website. This is a great place to "talk" and share music. If you create tabs, we should share it. But in the interest of the site, we cannot make it the vehicle of distribution. I very much want to learn and tabs are a great help. Just don't want to get anyone (me) into trouble.
On a positive note, I'm delighted with the freeware Power Tab Editor 1.7. It's ability to create the midi file - cool, yeah?!?! Also pleased with PDF995 and pdfEdit995. I learned a lot more than Molehu from this exercise. Thank you!
Andy |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2002 : 11:15:37 PM
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quote:
[Signing off for awhile]
Hey brah, I'm sorry to see that and hope 'awhile' will only be overnight. 
The trouble with msg boards is that misunderstanding frequently arise due to the lack of vocal inflection, facial expression, etc. that goes with normal face-to-face discussions. One can only do one's best to express a point, but it's easy to write something that does not sit right with the reader(s) even though it sounded perfectly fine when ya typed it.
As the poster of the tab, I asked for the legal discussion. It was quite helpful in trying to see how we should handle sharing of tablature which is a natural thing to do among students. The discussion's only just begun as I'm certain it will continue.
It's unfortunate, but misunderstandings come with the territory and will surely happen again.
Andy |
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