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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2004 : 12:00:14 PM
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I have some concerns about the propriety of making tabs available in the following situation: I was looking at Cyril Pahinui's tab of Sanoe in the Hanson book. It's basically in D. But I wanted to sing the song before playing the variations, and I can't sing it in D - way too low. So I took my favorite places from Cyril's version, and changed it to taropatch tuning, in G. So I'm happy, because I don't think there's any problem with me performing the version in G. And I would be glad to let others look at or use my taropatch version, but it's really Cyril's material, just rearranged and transposed. Any thoughts on whether sharing this would be appropriate or not? I would really value Cyril's opinion on this, since it's his piece. I could send the tab to him and he could decide on whether it's OK to post this tab.
By the way, the way I did the transposition to taropatch tuning was to put the musical notation into Finale, transpose it to key of G, run the automatic tablature plug-in, which created the rough tab for taropatch, and then tweak the tablature for playability. Works out great, if you have Finale.
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Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 1:24:47 PM
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I'm guessing that you're going to run into potential copyright issues with both Cyril and Mark Hanson. I would definitely contact Cyril and ask for his opinion.
You are, however, free to share it with anyone who owns Mark's book. |
Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 1:53:49 PM
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I would definitely check with Cyril, if for nothing else, the courtesy.
My own understanding is that transposing someone's arrangement basically note for note does not consitute creating a "new arrangement," and, therefore, you would basically be distributing Mark's arrangement, which means you need to check with him also. If you substantially changed Mark's arrangement, thereby creating your own version of the song, you probably wouldn't be violating Mark's rights. (I said probably because my attporney friend constantly reminds me of how quirky the law can be.) |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 3:42:06 PM
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Yes, Raymond is right. All you did in transposing was change the key and, I assume, optimize the fretting for G. It sounds just like the original but only in that new key of G, right?
I did exactly the same thing for Keola's Ku`u Lei Awapuhi Mele Mele which was in F Wahine. (I will never live long enough to learn F wahine). I wrote a stupidly simple spreadsheet with F Wahine input range and Taro Patch output range that merely did arithmetic on the string to string intervals. Out came the tab in G major, but in the original F wahine fingering. Then it was trivial enough to optimize the fingering for G by eyeball. Of course, it sounded exactly like Keola's version, except it was one note higher, because it *was* Keola's arrangement. (Man, it turned out to be sooo simple in TP and looked soooo complicated in F wahine :-) No way can I give it away or sell it or put it up on Soundclick, or whatever. I can use it for myself, though.
As for contacting Cyril for permission: it has been the experience of Sarah and me that even contacting an artist or foundation (like the Lili`uokalani Trust that Sarah did) or one of the local recording labels that blink in and out of existance like fireflies is about the equivalent of a SETI Search. It will probably take you less time to contact a denizen of Alpha Centauri. Then, tack on the time to actually get the permission and you might want to think about cloning yourself. (Sometime I will write up the hurdles we have jumped.) There are a few, the marvelous few, like Ozzie or Keola, and a couple of others that will get back to you (which is a reason to use them sparingly and only in extremis), but you are going to have a very hard case.
...Reid |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 6:25:31 PM
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Howdy,
I thought I would throw in my 2 cents, since this is a subject I deal with just about every other week. In no particular order here is what I do know and would like to know.
Leonard transposed Sanoe from D to G so that he can sing it.
Is he going to sell the transcription or distribute copies? Maybe.
Original lyrics composed by Kapeka Sumner for a member of Kalakaua’s court
It may or may not have been given to Lili`u.
It is included in Lili`u’s collection of Hawaiian songs.
<sum> Sanoe was popular in the 1890’s and early 1900’s as a waltz
Waltzes were one of the most popular forms of dance in the late 19th century and earl 20th century
Does Sanoe have an original melody? Or is it from somewhere else? Don't know.
The original melody more than likely is European --See Aloha `Oe.
If so, does Berne Convention apply? Don't know.
1. Austro-German Empire -- original member of Berne Convention, signed in 1887
2. United Kingdom -- original member of Berne Convention, signed in 1887
3. Slovenian
4. Croatian
Who has copyright publishing rights? Don't know.
In the US it is safe to say that songs published before 1923 are in the public domain.
Gabby records Sanoe with Sons of Hawaii in the early 1960’s
<sum> Sound Recording Copyright for this album is owned by Hula Records.
Criterion has a claim on copyright to the piece
Is this claim based on that of being a new work (original) or as a derivative work? Don't know.
Criterion Publishing released it as sheet music in the 1980s.
Cyril records Sanoe in mid 1990’s
New arrangement is Cyril’s
<sum> Dancing Cat owns sound Recording copyright for this album
<sum> Dancing Cat might own some of Cyril’s publishing
Mark does Cyril’s transcription
<sum> The new transcription is Mark’s unless it was done as a work for hire. No.
<sum> Mark has a copyright on the transcription
New arrangements are based on public domain piece from Lili`u’s collection
This action does not renew the copyright on the original work in the public domain. However, a work based upon a public domain piece will be granted copyright protection providing the addition to the composition is original and goes beyond those elements of substantial similarity.
See U.S.C TITLE 17, SEC 103
§ 103. Subject matter of copyright: Compilations and derivative works
(a) The subject matter of copyright as specified by section 102 includes compilations and derivative works, but protection for a work employing preexisting material in which copyright subsists does not extend to any part of the work in which such material has been used unlawfully.
(b) The copyright in a compilation or derivative work extends only to the material contributed by the author of such work, as distinguished from the preexisting material employed in the work, and does not imply any exclusive right in the preexisting material. The copyright in such work is independent of, and does not affect or enlarge the scope, duration, ownership, or subsistence of, any copyright protection in the preexisting material.
Anyway you guys figure it out. Welcome to my world.
Peter Medeiros
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cpatch
Ahonui
USA
2187 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 7:59:44 PM
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Like I said, the safest thing to do is just offer it to people who own Mark's book.
BTW, TablEdit is another program that makes it easy to change tabs from one tuning to another...just click and enter the new tuning, specify that you want the notes to stay the same, and you're done (other than tweaking for playability, which is also easy since TablEdit lets you move notes from one string to another with a simple keystroke).
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Craig
My goal is to be able to play as well as people think I can. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 8:33:52 PM
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Peter,
How can you think through processes like that, and still get "clear: enough to play slack key.
Very impressive. |
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2004 : 9:46:58 PM
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Raymond,
Universities are famous for having committees of one sort or another. So, 23 years ago I had a grant from this organization with the rather long title of The Committee on the Preservation of Hawaiian Language, Culture and Arts. My assignment was to write the copyright guidelines for research on Hawaiian music at UH. At the University of Colorado my undergrad major was in music business with an emphasis in copyright law and entertainment contracts. I was playing slack key long before I went to college. Having this background has kind of made me a blacksheep among players, some are actually intimidated which has suprised me to no end.
Peter |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 12:40:48 AM
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| Shame, 'cause you could be an extremely vauable resource to the sk community. |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 10:16:23 AM
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Thanks for all the thoughts, from informal to hyperlegal. Actually I'm not wanting to sell anything. And I did change the arrangement substantially in terms of which measures came from where, but I think it's still not my original work (I'm an attorney also), because they're Cyril's ideas. I was just thinking of offering a short cut for anybody who wanted to play some version of Sanoe in a taropatch tuning. But I think I'll just leave it to those interested to do for themselves what I did and transpose it on their own. Because much (but not all) of the underlying material is probably public domain, as in Sanoe, we need to remember that someone's arrangement of that material is not in the public domain.
On the subject of tab vs learning in person: I never try to play something exactly like anyone else, but I sure like tablature for getting the basics down and providing a platform for improvisation and change to my own details. We can't all have the pleasure of visiting a SK master and learning at his knee, and tablature allows us to work at our own pace and on our own schedule. I appreciate the willingness of the masters to let us in on the details of how they played the piece the day the tab was written down, even if (as usual) they play it differently every time. |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 1:53:40 PM
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For any of you who don't recognize the name "Peter Medeiros", you have a true slack key and Hawaiian music master in your midst:
http://www.mele.com/v3/info/2340.htm
Peter: I met your sister at Na Mea Hawai`i -- she was steering me toward your CD, and seemed delighted to know it was available on my site. |
Auntie Maria
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My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
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Peter Medeiros
`Olu`olu
546 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2004 : 4:59:33 PM
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Aunty Maria,
Mahalo, thanks for the plug. Your being sales you can understand that's what big sisters do. My sister Pua is also a very accomplished Hawaiian musician in her own right and she taught music and Hawaiian Studies in the DOE for close to thirty-seven(?) years.
Peter M |
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Darin
Lokahi
USA
294 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2004 : 11:02:37 AM
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Hi Leonard,
Legal talk aside, I find it unfortunate that you can't share your arrangement. The sharing and desire to learn Hawaiian music on this site is really wonderful, and it's sad to see sharing hindered by copyright, especially when the potential financial benefit for the artist is tiny. The real benefit of copyright protection for Hawaiian musicians is the income it produces from sources such as public performance royalties, mechanical rights, and sync rights. If Hawaiian musicians understood and cared about their copyrights as much as you guys do on this site, maybe copyright would actually provide substantial income to the Hawaiian music industry. |
Darin
http://www.hawaiiguitar.com/ |
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