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souchong
Aloha
USA
8 Posts |
 Posted - 07/23/2002 : 2:16:16 PM
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Aloha Dear Ones,
Beggin' your collective pardon for introducing such a dull topic, but I just have to get a few things off my chest. As some of you may know, I'm a total guitar beginner trying to teach myself ki ho'alu. I have Beamer & Nelson's Learn to Play book, and I'm also subscribed to Keola's online lessons, but my problem is they both seem to be geared toward folks who already know how to play guitar, and who want to cross over to ki ho'alu. So when the printed lessons start to get over my head (pretty quickly), I put on a slack key cd and do my best to play along. On many slow pieces, I can usually pick out a very basic bass line. This has been nice just to get used to holding the guitar and getting my left hand used to the positions & actions of fretting (and calluses - ouch). But last night, I started to learn my first melody line!
This would be the first track on George Kahumoku's cd Hawaiian Love Songs, "The Queen's Prayer". George starts out with an intro on rapidly strummed bass strings, but then starts playing the melody very simply, one note at a time. This was the part that I played along with, over and over, for about an hour. I'm sure my fingering - both hands - was atrocious, but it was just so exciting to reproduce, however pitifully, something on one of my favorite cds!
However, I'm quickly developing a pet peeve about how the writers of slack key instruction materials play fast and loose with the terms "up", "down", "higher", and "lower". (It took me long enough before I found out that guitar strings are numbered 1-6 from bottom to top, that is, from highest pitched to lowest.) Here's just one example: Quoting from Keola's online lessons, "Fundamentals of Slack Key Guitar Technique - Rest Stroke" (my comments are in parentheses):
"...place the index finger of the right hand on the first string. (Right, no problem.) Sound the string my moving it forcefully toward the soundboard of the guitar. (Okay...) For the follow through, keep the finger moving down until it stops on the second string. (Waitaminnit, down? I thought the first string was the one on the bottom, you can't go down...maybe he means the first string, as in the one on the top?...wait, no, that doesn't make sense...maybe he means down as in up, like down the scale but up toward the ceiling?!?...AAAAAHHHH!!!)"
This not only confused me and my husband Arthur, who's usually good at figuring stuff out, it even confused Bruce, the guitarist in our Celtic band, Twisted Knickers (I'll tell you about them later, if you care to know more). We finally reached the uncertain conclusion that perhaps Keola meant down as in towards the soundboard.
So, after you've all finished laughing your @ $$es off, or shaking your heads in wonder at my ignorance, does anybody have any useful comments, explanations, suggestions, encouragement? Mahalo in advance and remember kids, tune in next time for the further adventures of Harp Chick in Slack Key Guitar Land!
Linda
July 23, 2002 - Happy 13th Birthday Daniel Radcliffe!
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2002 : 3:08:52 PM
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I think you figured it out. Keola means "down" toward the soundboard.
How are you making out with Bruddah John? This is a great exercise for getting accustomed to the alternating bass and putting a melody over it. Learning that would give you the basics of slack key.
BTW, I noticed 2 Ron Loo books on eBAY today. I do not own his series but borrowed one once. Nobody breaks down a song measure by measure like Ron does. It might be a good way to go if you're starting guitar from scratch. You can check www.ronlooslackkey.com for more info. I think they're around $59 per book new (not cheap).
Aloha,
Andy |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2002 : 4:24:58 PM
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I had much the same frustration as you had, only I started with Keola's other book/cd which is even harder. I did a few things that helped me a LOT.
First of all, I highly recommend Ozzie Kotani's book & CD. (While Ron Loo breaks things down even more than Ozzie, I found his price just too expensive.) Ozzie got it to where a complete newcomer to guitar (me) could get good sounding slack key in a reasonable time. Also, each lesson builds on the ones before, so there is some real logic to the progression of skill building. It is usually available through www.mele.com Second, I got Francis Noad's book on basic guitar techniques. Even though it was in "standard" tuning, working through the first 10 or 12 lessons helped get me grounded and feel secure.
NOW, and I don't want to sound like a missionary, but I think this is VERY IMPORTANT. I suggest you get one or two lessons from a well trained guitarist, an experienced teacher, who can help you by making sure you are holding the instrument properly and your mechanicsa are good. Playing guitar is like micro-athletics, and it can lean to serious nerve injury. I have two friends who got very serious RSI's from improperly holding the guitar.
Finally, my experience was that I could only get halfway with printed/recorded material. I needed to sit in the same room with an expert slack key player -- there's so much that we do when we're playing that is so hard to put into words, but it is what creates the "nahenahe" part of slack key. My wife and I took one of our vacations in Hawaii so I could get some lesson time. Hard to take!
Absolutely final, hang in there, once you get your first song or two done you can keep in touch with the "fun" part, and it makes it all worthwhile.
Raymond
San Jose, CA
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2002 : 6:09:44 PM
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quote:
First of all, I highly recommend Ozzie Kotani's book & CD. (While Ron Loo breaks things down even more than Ozzie, I found his price just too expensive.) Ozzie got it to where a complete newcomer to guitar (me) could get good sounding slack key in a reasonable time. Also, each lesson builds on the ones before, so there is some real logic to the progression of skill building.
Ditto that. Ozzie put a lot of thought in to his arrangements and progression of skills. Ozzie's book got me on my way. The first song in the book is Kani Ki Ho`alu which is on his 1st Dancing Cat CD.
As Raymond says, keep at it and you will soon reap the rewards.
Andy |
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 11:11:40 AM
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Hi Linda,
It's still driving me nuts, too. I agree about Ozzie's book. I can stumble, veeerrrrryyy sllooowwwllyyy, thru a few of his songs, but not at the speed John or Bruddah Chrispy do. And once I fall behind, I'm lost and can't get back in. :^( I started slack key around the beginning of this year.
I started slack key after some DIY classical guitar lessons from a method book. That gave me enough ground that the fingerstyle of slack key was familiar. Raymond's suggestion of getting Noad's book is a good one. I don't know it, but a lot of people have used it. On-line, there is Play Guitar which starts you with how to hold the beast, how to read tab, how to hold your hands, all the necessary stuff, plus midis to give you a hint as to what the music should sound like. Of course, the method books are all in standard tuning, so you have to keep switching back and forth. Or get a second guitar!!! Already, you have an excuse!!! A teacher would surely help, too, if you can find a good one. I've been burnt with a not very good one - nice guy, great player, unhelpful teacher.
I only sort of agree with John on learning chords. Fingerstyle and strumming are different enough techniques that I don't think one necessarily leads to the other. Even so, one thing I would like to learn is first, what the chords are to the songs (Ozzie doesn't say), and second, how to finger them in Taro Patch so I can play sort of a rhythm back up next time I get lost. I haven't really got into this, yet, but it seems like a way to be able to play with other, better slackers.
Pauline |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 2:27:52 PM
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Hi Linda -
First off, I applaud your most excelleant taste in slack key books. 
That being said, I second the suggestions that you find a guitar teacher and take a few basic lessons. Learning slack key is is no different from learning any other musical skill. It helps to have help.
'However, I'm quickly developing a pet peeve about how the writers of slack key instruction materials play fast and loose with the terms "up", "down", "higher", and "lower".'
Your frustration is not all that uncommon among beginners. Here's the deal - Higher means "up the scale," lower means "down the scale." Ditto "top" and "bottom" refer to scale terms, not gravity. On a guitar your bottom strings are the thick fat low-sounding ones, the top strings are the thin, high sounding ones. Same as a harp, BTW. Which I play. Very, very badly.
String numbering on a guitar (top string is 1, bottom string is 6) is standard- that's the way everybody does it. Ditto most of the rest of the nomenclature - what Keola is describing is called a "rest stroke" - you play a note and the finger follows through until it comes to rest on the next string. Any begginning classical instruction method will show you how to do it; better is to spend a couple of hours with an instructor.
Just so you know, Keola and I saw an advanced copy of Ozzie's wonderful book as we were writing "Learn to Play Hawaiian Slack Key Guitar." We changed our text and lesson plan so that the two books would work together.
To me it sounds like you are well on your way to playing slack key -- you took the time to learn something by ear and found great enjoyment by do it. That is the essence of playing music.
Good luck and happy playing!
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 7:18:11 PM
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Pauline,
If you're still trying to figure out what chords Ozzie is using in his instruction book...
The older version, if I remember right, has some of them spelled out in the notes. Also, I have a handout from George Kahumoku that makes it fairly easy to figure out the basic chords. I used it on one of Ozzie's Tabs and it helped a lot. I can send it to you if you email your address to LSRS @ ix.netcom.com. Sorry, I don't have a computerized version.
Raymond
San Jose, CA
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 9:13:29 PM
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And "up the neck" means moving from the tuning pegs toward the body, moving up in pitch, as Mark implied.
John, I want to hear you on a conch shell!! Really.
I think I learned chords and classical style simultaneously. I'll agree with a lot of what you say about chords as training for rhythm. Learning chords for standard tuning, how to hold your fingers, doesn't translate into altered tunings, tho. What I know about forming a Cmajor on standard is to hold my fingers just so. And a quick switch to a G is shifting my fingers in just this way. It's holistic (there's got to be a better word, gestalt?); it's not a rational thing that is useful for other chord shifts, like E to Am, that shift has to be learned separately, independantly. After a while, you possibly learn the usual shift into G and tacking on a shift from a novel starting point can be learned quickly. Still, this information is so specific it will be of little use in playing slack key.
Learning the chords in altered tunings, Taro Patch at least, may be a good way to start, but then you're not really playing slack key if you strum. I'm not sure how chording fits into slack key, but I think a lot of slack key is finger-picking the basic chord shapes. And I'm hoping it can useful for backup. One problem is that the only published Taro Patch chords I know of are on this site, supplied by Mark Nelson. I've heard that George Kahumoku teaches how to use chords in his workshops, but I don't know of any books on this, just his handouts.
UPS delivered Mark's & Keola's book yesterday; I'm just now looking at it. Hmm, chords aren't indicated.
I'd like to talk more about chords, but I don't want to hijack Linda's thread, so I'll start another.
Pauline |
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Bruddah Chrispy
Lokahi
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 12:41:54 PM
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Aloha e Linda (e kakou),
I know exactly the frustration you are feeling. Many new skills in this life require you to go through an initial phase before you reach critical mass. At critical mass, it's fun and you want to do it. You may not consider yourself any good at that point, but you don't have to force yourself to do it.
In surfing, I hit critical mass one specific afternoon at Canoes in Waikiki. After weeks of getting wet, frustrated, and in the way of a lot of surfing legends, I finally caught a wave, stood up, and rode it with some amount of control. (With windsurfing I never got passed the "pull up the sail and fall over backwards" phase)
With slack key there is also that initial struggle. I think I hit critical mass about the time I could play Ozzie's Kani Ki Ho`alu without looking at the tabs. Oh joy! I made music!!!!! Since then there have been struggles, but hardly any frustration.
"There's no regrets, only good times"
So, I guess I really have no tips for you except to say "stay with it". At some point ahead you will turn a corner that you didn't even see coming.
Aloha a hui hou,
Chris P. |
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 8:56:16 PM
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Here's something to remember whenever you attempt to learn a new skill:
It takes time. A lot of time. Be gentle with yourself...
Remember when you learned how to walk? Probably not, but you did have to learn. And you probably fell on your butt a lot and laughed and laughed.... and now you can walk, and run, and skip, and dance.
It's the same learning to play music.
It's OK to laugh when you fall on your butt.
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 9:11:03 PM
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Mark,
I like that advice.
I need some on how to remember it when I really need it.  
Pauline |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 10:05:40 PM
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Thanks Mark.
I had forgotten why it is I'm laughing all the time while I play! |
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LONGBOARDER
Aloha
Japan
14 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 11:08:29 PM
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Mahalo nui loa Mark,
Your advice encouraged me very much.
Jiro.
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souchong
Aloha
USA
8 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2002 : 12:44:18 AM
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Thanks to everyone who posted in response to my topic, I think I've had a bit of a breakthrough. Once I sat down and really said to myself, "Okay, I'm going to learn this, it's not that hard I'm sure, and I'm not that stupid..." - I found that reading tab was actually pretty easy. Easier than reading music, really, since I still have yet to internalize the notes on the strings and how they change as one moves up the fretboard. I've played through Bruddah John, and the first page of turnaround exercises, and I've at least started looking at the first Taro Patch tuning piece, "Kuwili".
Oh, and I've finally ordered Ozzie's book & cd - should be here around the beginning of next week. Can't wait!
I have been getting a few tips from Bruce, the guitar player in our Celtic band Twisted Knickers, i.e. how to hold the guitar, how to fret strings and do chords etc. I've also been told that the guitar I have is a classical model, and that the neck is extra-wide, partly because my mother-in-law (to whom it belonged) had large hands and long fingers. Unfortunately, this is making it a bit more difficult for me because I have small hands and short fat fingers. Ah well, it'll be just that much more important for me to develop reach & strength in my left hand.
Again, thanks to everybody. For those of you who might not have seen my other posts in other places, I'll be heading to Reading, PA on August 28th for a slack key workshop & concert by George Kahumoku & ohana. I can't wait, I've heard so much wonderful stuff about him. That reminds me, I need to hop over to Dancing Cat and get a t-shirt, so when I meet George he can sign it for me! 
Linda
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31 July 2002 - Happy Birthday Harry Potter and Jo Rowling!
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