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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
 Posted - 07/24/2002 : 10:20:10 PM
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Aloha all,
JWN and I were discussing chords in slack key, and it deserves its own topic. I have a number of questions.
Are there any books or sites that discuss using chords in slack key? Mark Nelson gave us chord lists from his handouts at tunings so he must cover this in his classes. Same for George Kahumoku. Is there anything more generally available?
Chords would be good for playing along with a song you don't know or don't know well, but strumming doesn't seem to fit here. Someone on HawaiiMusicians.com gave a standard fingerpicking pattern that is a lot like either the beginning or ending to Ozzie Kotani's "Molehu". Are those patterns the ones to use?
How do you know which chords to use where? Looking at a book, tab or notation, what is an easy way to figure out what the chords are so you can practice playing along with the CD - nothing fancy, just the 3 or so basic chords.
I'm thinking of Taro Patch tuning here. Are there other tunings worth learning chords for, for a beginner that is?
In standard tuning, a lot of people start by playing the chords to a song. Later they may embellish the chords or pick up fingerstyle. Is there a path like this in slack key?
Enough questions for now, I guess. Thanks if you've read this far and many more thanks for any answers.
Pauline
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2002 : 11:56:48 PM
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Pauline,
I have a bit of time, so I'll share what I know. Sorry for poor typing.
Chords are basic. I can't think of playing any song without knowing its melody and its chords. Listen to the old Gabby, Atta, Sonny stuff -- lots of strumming going on there, especially as an accompaniment to the singing. What I think of as a "hula" strum. To my ear the fingerpicking usually comes more as ornament between verses/chorus. It seems to me that solo instrumental slack key is the "new kid" on the block --- and there melody IS crucial. I don't like to strum, so I play finger picking patterns mostly if I play with someone else.
I find that most Hawaiian songs follow the basic I- IV - V pattern, sometimes substituting IIm for IV. For a song in G: G- C (Am) - D.
Some of the songs which are based upon older chants don't follow this pattern, for instance Kawika, which was a chant that the Cazimero's redid while playing in Sunday Manoa. In Taro Patch, you have to play off Eb - D for the chant part, then go to I-IV-V for the "Chorus." Luckily most stuff slackers play isn't based in chant.
As to finger picking patterns -- I don't know of any book that has slack key patterns, but there are a couple of books that have finger picking patterns. I think you can easily adapt most Travis style patterns. For me, it is more fun to come up with either "borrowings" from great players which I "adapt," or my own patterns. (I use the term "adapt" because I'm not a sticker for note for note. I get the feel and go from there.) I think Willie K has GREAT stuff. Listen closely to Ho'okena and Makaha Sons and you'll find some gems.
George Kahumoke gives a hand out that uses the "open" and "closed" positions to teach basic chord positions. After learning that chart, I really had the basics and could figure out a heck of a lot of songs. Of course there are always the "exotic" chords that make it hard. I still can't figure out most of Keola's stuff, even when it is in Taro Patch. I usually pick up songs from singers, using their voices for the melody and filling in the chords by myself. (You know in Taro patch you can play almost every chord just by playing the bar chord positions.)
Enough - hope this has some use to someone, or I just wasted time I could be playing.
Raymond
San Jose, CA
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Mark
Ha`aha`a
USA
1628 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2002 : 1:51:07 PM
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Boy, there was some really great reason why Keola and I left off the chords, but I'll be durned if I can remember what it was....
Should you learn chords in more than one tuning? Well, do you play in more than one tuning? If so, then by all means do learn the chord shapes for each one.
At the very least, memorize the I, II7, V7, and IV. (G, A7, D7 and C in G) What are they in C? F??? Use your fingers, its really EZ.
You don't need chord diagrams - nothing will teach the neck faster than sitting down and saying: "OK, here's the root, now I need to find a third... here it is. Now where's the fifth? Wow, if I put my finger here it's a 7th....." No need to let that kind of language scare you - start with chords you already know in standard tuning and name all the notes and their relationships.
Hint: For a G7 chord: the root is G; B is the third {G=1; A=2; so B=3); D is the fifth. What's the 7th? Yep, F.
Here's a related thought: For some reason slackers (sorry) seem to think that you have to get beyond Taro Patch in order to progress as a player. I beg to differ - listen to what Leonard Kwan, Sonny Chillingworth and Ray Kane do. Beginner's tuning? Hardly.
True mastery comes by playing from the heart. If your heart can sing in more than one tuning, more power to ya.
For the record, I'm working on a book right now that covers chords in some detail. Don't hold your breath, though. I'm realllllllllllllll slow.
Cheers!
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Pauline Leland
`Olu`olu
USA
783 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 12:40:21 AM
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Thanks for your suggestions. Lots of good ideas there. Mark, I need the book, hurry!
Today dshelby the seldom seen and I were trying to figure out the chords to Ozzie's first songs. One thing became evident, that while "other" music usually hangs around the first position, slack key refuses to be confined to one area of the fretboard. Ozzie's very! first! song takes the student from the 2nd fret to the 12th fret, all in the first! bar! So chords are nice, but you have to learn at least 3 versions of each: up, down, and in the middle of the neck. I'm daunted.
Also, we found, I should say dshelby found and showed me, some chords very easily for one song and then faltered on another. Now, in that "other" tuning, I've been able to figure out chords for a song partly by ear, partly by trial and error. I could have listened to the record, too, but Mr. Fingerstyle Virtuoso was hard to follow (lovely to listen to) and, it turned out, in a different key than my comfort zone. A third method is to follow a cookbook scheme, but what is it? I have software that will select chords, not always the best, but passable, passable, so there are some rules that can be followed. What are they?
I'm discovering that chords in slack key are not a short cut, just a different way of getting there. If I'm ignoring one of your revelations, please forgive me, I'm having absorbtion problems.
Basic picking patterns - here's what I was talking about, my interpretation of a part of Renny Tsark's article on HawaiiMusicians.com. Find a chord, like the open strings in Taro Patch, and pick strings 5, 3, 4, 1 in that order. For some chords, pick 6, 3, 4, 1. He is more specific, but your ears will tell you which to use.
Pauline |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2002 : 6:25:10 PM
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Pauline,
Sounds like you're getting frustrated with all this.
My experience is that it is much simpler than it seems, but I needed a few lessons with a good teacher to "get me over the hump." When I say simpler, I don't mean that I always get all the chords. That's one of the things that separates skill levels. I do mean that after 3 or 4 lessons I am pretty much able to get the melody and basic chords from a recording in Taro Patch G. I also can get the relationships between tones fairly accurate with enough tries so that a good bit of the time I can "transpose" other keys to G. I can't do a note for note copy of one of the masters, but then again, I have almost no interest in doing that. I do, however, get a lot of ideas from them that I mess around with. My time on this planet is starting to get limited, and I want to do MY stuff, not somebody else's.
To summarize. A few lessons focusing on chird structures might go a long way.
Raymond
Sanjose
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