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hcbitt
Aloha
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2004 : 10:57:26 AM
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Does anyone have a recommendation for a 12 string to play slack key. I play a Baby Taylor and steel and nylon Martins but want to explore a different voice. Any suggestions for a 12 string model that is partaicularly suited for slack key.
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HC 'Skip' Bittenbender |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 2:57:35 PM
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aloha skip,
i've played taylor 12 strings slaked down (many models) and they all sound good. a friend has a martin steel 12 sting (a dreadnaught) that sounds great slacked down. any of these have good sustain and a strong bass.
sounds like fun!
keith |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2004 : 3:39:37 PM
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| George Kahumoku's Rainsomg 12 string is also a killer! |
Dusty |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 05:02:40 AM
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Do you guys switch the bass string pairs, so your thumb hits the lower octave string first.... or not? I wonder because when I did try a 12 string, that was what sounded strange to me: hearing a higher octave bass note first. I heard that some people switch strings around. However, maybe I just need experience or a different thumb approach.
-sarah |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 05:16:02 AM
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Skip, I agree w/ Keith. Most of all 12-stringers sound great for Slack Key. I own two. I feel Takamine is best for 12-string, super light gauge strings, incorporating use picks further enhances that classic Slack Key sound. It will be addictive. :=)
-slkho |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 05:31:37 AM
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sarah, when you figure it out let me know? watching friends play, it sure seems to me that they're not doing anything different, and none of my friends swapped the strings around, but when i try that high note comes out first (sometimes, the low note never sounds  ). oh, and for me at least, some songs sound better on 12 string (wai ulu, for example).
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Keith |
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bobby3dog
Akahai
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 05:59:14 AM
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Skip,
Be sure to check out a Martin J12-15 (all mahogany). You can pick one up for about 750.00 new. They sound good, they're very playable. Not all of the 15 series are up to martins usual standards , but this is one of the ones that is...and aside from the fact that they sound good, look good, and are ,as I allready said, very playable; they are one of the true bargains around right now.
B3D |
b3d |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 06:02:33 AM
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| I think Don (Ianui) switched the string order on his 12 string. How about it Don? |
Dusty |
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Ianui
Lokahi
USA
298 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 06:14:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by wdf
I think Don (Ianui) switched the string order on his 12 string. How about it Don?
Yes, I have a Takamine and reversed the strings.
I also removed the upper 3rd string, and only have 1 3rd string. I had a chance to see George Kahomoku's 12 string Rainsong and believe this is what he has had done as well. |
Edited by - Ianui on 11/15/2004 06:24:53 AM |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 11:33:03 AM
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I actually find that striking the octave note on the lower strings to be really helpful. If you really work the thumb, you can get a nice melody line running through the middle of the guitar rather than accepting the melody from the top 2 string courses and using the lower strings for groove and rhythm.
As for nice 12 strings, both Larrivee and Taylor have more than acceptable 12 strings, both for full tension and slack key playing. But then, I suggest visiting a guitar store or three and playing a few. The look on the sales rep's faces alone when you retune it to taro patch alone should be enough to repay you for the visit. It will also let you know quickly if you need to have them raise the height of the saddle when you do. Some 12 strings that sound great when in standard tuning rattle when slacked, and it isn't the fault of the guitar itself at all. |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 1:26:09 PM
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| I like Taylor 12s. Interestingly, I've found several used ones and they tend to run just under $1000. Most of the models that I seen are 400s. Buffalo Brothers in Carlsbad,CA always has several used rigs, despite having used Taylor 6s go out the door quickly. They have a web site with decent pics and descriptions. |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2004 : 1:26:17 PM
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I have on 30 yer old ovation 12 fret 12 string that sound great with light guage string, and a Leo Kottke Sig model Taylor that has really heavy strings tuned doen to open F. It is a growler when played hard, but sounds sweet as can be with a light fingerstyle touch.
The best 12 string for you however, will be just that; the best one for you. This is too much like recommending a food or movie, too much personal taste, so just go play as many as you can and the right one will speak to you.
As far as reversing the string, I have no problem with hearing both courses of strings on the three lower courses, but that is a great idea about maybe reversing them on the third string. The high G is very bright and adds a lot to most pieces, but is hard to hear unless you really pound it, as you (I should say "I" ,as this may not be a problem for others) hit that string mostly from the top with a finger, not downward with the thumb. You need only to listenn to Leo Kottke's Crow River Waltz to understand what I mean. That high G makes the whole song. THe reason you hear it as the melody line is it is always played with the thumnb, as a pinch. Without that note it sounds like a long exercise in rhythm. So, perhpas reversing the high and low G on the third set might make sense for slackers or other fingerstylers who use 12 string a lot.
Ianui, youmentioned you removed the upper 3rd string. I would guess you mean the wound string closer to the upper bout, not the plain steel high G more toward the base? (Well I guess I just answered my own question!)
I will try both ways tonight. I have the feeling something will sound empty, though. And, i would be really surprised if the removal of any of the strings would produce a more pleasing sound than you already have. When I play, the higher course strings on the base are already quite audible, and the heavier wound lower course strings are larger enough than their paired strings that they sound well, even though they are struck second. AND, if yo use picks, it doesn't matter at all, because then you can hear everything equally.
One more variation on that theme is Tracey Moore, who has developed the ability to pick either string in any of the sets on the 12 string! Try that sometime for a humbling experience. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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bluespiderweb
Akahai
USA
91 Posts |
Posted - 11/18/2004 : 05:10:02 AM
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Karl wrote:"One more variation on that theme is Tracey Moore, who has developed the ability to pick either string in any of the sets on the 12 string! Try that sometime for a humbling experience."
I would say SPOOKY! Can you imagine that ability?!!
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Koaniani,
Ola, Barry
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hcbitt
Aloha
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 08/23/2005 : 9:46:47 PM
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Aloha Karl and All who contributed to my knowledge about selecting a 12 string ,
Just last week I purchased a beatiful flamed maple Taylor 654ce. I haven't reversed the bass string pairs yet. But will report back unless this conversation continued somewhere else.
quote:
Originally posted by Karl Monetti
I have on 30 yer old ovation 12 fret 12 string that sound great with light guage string, and a Leo Kottke Sig model Taylor that has really heavy strings tuned doen to open F. It is a growler when played hard, but sounds sweet as can be with a light fingerstyle touch.
The best 12 string for you however, will be just that; the best one for you. This is too much like recommending a food or movie, too much personal taste, so just go play as many as you can and the right one will speak to you.
As far as reversing the string, I have no problem with hearing both courses of strings on the three lower courses, but that is a great idea about maybe reversing them on the third string. The high G is very bright and adds a lot to most pieces, but is hard to hear unless you really pound it, as you (I should say "I" ,as this may not be a problem for others) hit that string mostly from the top with a finger, not downward with the thumb. You need only to listenn to Leo Kottke's Crow River Waltz to understand what I mean. That high G makes the whole song. THe reason you hear it as the melody line is it is always played with the thumnb, as a pinch. Without that note it sounds like a long exercise in rhythm. So, perhpas reversing the high and low G on the third set might make sense for slackers or other fingerstylers who use 12 string a lot.
Ianui, youmentioned you removed the upper 3rd string. I would guess you mean the wound string closer to the upper bout, not the plain steel high G more toward the base? (Well I guess I just answered my own question!)
I will try both ways tonight. I have the feeling something will sound empty, though. And, i would be really surprised if the removal of any of the strings would produce a more pleasing sound than you already have. When I play, the higher course strings on the base are already quite audible, and the heavier wound lower course strings are larger enough than their paired strings that they sound well, even though they are struck second. AND, if yo use picks, it doesn't matter at all, because then you can hear everything equally.
One more variation on that theme is Tracey Moore, who has developed the ability to pick either string in any of the sets on the 12 string! Try that sometime for a humbling experience.
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HC 'Skip' Bittenbender |
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Mutantmoose
Aloha
USA
12 Posts |
Posted - 08/24/2005 : 07:39:53 AM
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Well, it's too late, but the Seagull 12 string that I have has been great, the action is nice, it's very playable, sounds great. I paid $200 for mine used. Solid top too!
MArk |
Mark
"In the business of enriching lives for 15 years." |
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