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Old poi dog
Aloha
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 11/23/2004 : 3:25:54 PM
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Being an older guy, my fingers are not as flexible as they once were. AS such I need to do some excercxises before playing guitar. Can anyone direct me to scales in open G?
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 3:41:28 PM
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hi OPD,
um? do you mean some exercises that are scale like, or a G scale, or Bb scale, or something else?
kevin brown talks about how leonard kwan used to have to warm his hands up for a long time (30 minutes, i think), deeply massaging them until he could play.
aloha,
keith
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 3:45:53 PM
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Aloha OPD,
The tuning applet on this site has scales and chord voicings available. It's really a cool tool. Check it out! |
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Old poi dog
Aloha
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 5:05:31 PM
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Thanks keith and Pops. I'll check out the tuning applet, but I am brand new to this site so I may be asking about it again. Keith, my guitar is tuned to open G always, so I guess I am looking for exercises that I can do in my open G tuning.
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 11/23/2004 : 9:17:58 PM
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I'm not sure formal scales are necessary for a slack key beginner, although they really can't hurt any musician. You might want to try working the parraleel 6ths on 1 & 3 strings, up and down the fret board, with alternatring bass, then go to thirds on 2 & 3 string, then try a few different turnarounds arpegiatting both up and down. That should be a good warm up.
An excercise physiologist I know advises against starting with repetative scales. It seems this puts a lot of stress on your muscles before they are warmed up == something that isn'y too good for them. He recommends playing a fairly easy song or two slowly to get the blood flowing in your hands before going to work on scales. In my experience it seems to be easier on my (54 yr old) hands. I remember when I was doing Aikido training - our sensei hand us do a few laps around the dojo before stretching -- we actuaqlly lowered the number of strains and sprains that way (he kept statistics) so it seems to make sense. |
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Kapila Kane
Ha`aha`a
USA
1051 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 12:00:04 AM
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Perhaps a widening of this idea is possible...?
Repetitive scales (still looking for the other kind) may be too much fine motor activity for initial warmup...despite what we've been taught.
A friend who Religiously warms up..., ALWAYS starts with large muscle activity then moves to fine motor activation.
Unfortunately, she's a pianist!
But the principle of warmups would be a healthy routine--if done right.
I have been trying to think how to apply this to violin and or guitar...and I'm lazy about warmups...
But there's Carpel tunnel (where the fish live);
Trigger Thumb (where the stuffed horse lives);
and probably stuff I don't even know about, and can't handle...
But I'm serious...
Not only for the delicate mind and finger connectiion...but for just getting the blood, brain and fingers buzzin...
For me, I have a problem with my fingerstyle roll, and the precision required between accuracy and idiocy.
Sometimes I start with Ozzie's book, sometimes various rolls to activate the Pima dudes, or sometimes do a Landeza or "Moe 'Uhane..."
But I have no set startup routine...yet...
So what would be a good exercise for large muscle groups (no wise cracks please--geez look who's talkin'), and also the fine motor stuff for left hand and/or right hand activation?
Brain?
Some of these might NOT require the instrument...eh?
Is this a different topic?
G
P.S. I'm not anti-scale.
and will also use 'em for warmups!
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ohanabrown
Lokahi
281 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 12:42:33 AM
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Aloha, OPD
If you have the time come join us in waihee from 10am till 6pm. Keith will be on maui, I know he leaves that day but maybe he could join us for couple of hours before there flight. Mark Lennon will be in waihee too. It's the church next to waihee school, come join us if you can.
A Hui Hou!
Kevin |
Kevin K. Brown |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 03:03:01 AM
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I have had tendonitis in both thumbs and wrists for about a year and a half. There are a few things I do religiously every morning. Of course, I am retired so I have the time then, but they can be done anytime. I walk briskly for 1/2 to 3/4 hour. Then I do a 128 posture Northern Wu taiji quan form which takes about 30 minutes. The form uses a "hook hand" and other hand and wrist motions in most moves. Then I do exactly what Raymond suggested, except I also do a series of pimami, etc. picking patterns first . The simple songs I use after the 3rds and 6ths are E Lili`u e and Molehu. I also get up and walk around the house after every half hour.
I also use an elastic brace on my picking hand to help me maintain a straight wrist. I recently bought an inexpensive "office" type chair from Ikea (big box store) that is totally adjustable and provides excellent support at all the right angles. I also use a Neckup, like John Keawe and similar to the Taylor prop that Ozzie uses. This maintains proper positioning.
When I was a competitive long distance runner, stretching, as stretching, caused more damage than running itself. I was a friend of a famous sports orthopod named Pete Jokl, who told me to stretch *after* warming up and use only certain stretches (he wrote a book about the proper ones for different sports). So, my run warm-up was to take the first mile very slowly.
Keola showed us a hand and wrist and arm stretch that he uses, but I just don't remember it. Those who go to AMC should ask him about it.
Many of the posts on the newsgroup rmmga are about injuries to hands and wrists. Playing guitar is not to be taken lightly. It is a very demanding activity.
...Reid
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 05:09:00 AM
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Aloha Old P-D,
Massaging your hands/fingers in nearly hot water works for me, followed by a couple of slow numbers. Scales are nice but if its finger action you need, simply alternate finger pressings on the strings from the 12th fret down to the 1st. Continually alternate from fingers 4-through-1. Start with the first string, then second, and so on in this fashion. Finger massaging for about 10 minutes is the best method I believe. Good luck.
-slkho |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 05:58:49 AM
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| Thanks for bringing up this subject of injuries,etc. You've all made me aware that I really have to warm up before I practice. I'd been having just a little hand pain (I'm 56) and I should have thought about the warmup thing. I have another question about pain: over the last 2 months (when I started playing again) I've developed the expected callouses on my left hand, but there is some tenderness on some of the fingertips. Any thoughts? LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 07:24:10 AM
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Leonard sez:
quote:
but there is some tenderness on some of the fingertips. Any thoughts? LRR
You may be pressing the strings too hard. You don't have to press them all the way down to the fretboard. Practice using a lighter touch. Maybe you could try a lighter gauge string set or tune down to F taropatch CFCFAC (assumming you are tuned to G taropatch). This will reduce the tension on the strings - and it sounds nice too! |
Dusty |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 07:38:56 AM
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Aloha P-D,
The tenderness in the fingertips is normal, (even with heavily calloused fingertips) it occurs often when pressing a lot, or too hard on steel strings..especially on those upper 3-4 frets. Sometimes my hurt for days, (after a good kanikapila).
Gently encircle each finger and with a squeezing motion, slide it the toward the tip. This will force blood to fill the minute capillaries and quicken the healing and pain relief, (it also stimulates faster nail growth) Its an old pedicure method, (guys, don't ask. i know people). Another way to build pain-free tips is take all your fingertips and forceably press them on a table at 1-2 minute intervals. By forcing the blood out of the area, the underlying skin layers are more tolerable to higher pain tresholds.
You can always do the old vinegar dipping or nail polish on the fingertips, (poor man's callous) method. You can even switch to nylon strings, (like Leonard Qwan).
pau,
-slkho
p.s. no pain is experienced by those air-guitar slack-key players. (oh, when will i stop...ha!) |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 11:42:47 AM
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| All great suggestions! I'll try the lighter touch first, and perhaps the lower key (F taropatch). Thanks. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 2:43:02 PM
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| Great topic! I recently was diagnosed with carpal tunnel and it's very bothersome. I do some hand exercises and I sometimes wear a wrist brace. What seems to work best is the hardest - don't play guitar or 'ukulele for while - rest. I'm also switching to lighter guage guitar strings and concentrating more on my uke playing until I see the doctor next month. Some scales in different positions also seems to help too. |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 2:47:07 PM
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| With some guitars you may get some string slap and fret buzz on the 1st string when tuned down to F. I have found that using a medium gauge (.013) on the 1st string usually corrects this problem. |
Dusty |
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Old poi dog
Aloha
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 11/24/2004 : 5:14:22 PM
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| Mahalo Everyone.......You've all given me a place to start. I will try to get down to Waihee and talk story, watch and learn. In the meantime I will look forward to any advice you can give me. It may not be this Sat. though; got some home repairs going on but next Sat. most likely. |
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