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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
 Posted - 12/26/2004 : 7:25:10 PM
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Does anyone know why my Kasuga classical guitar would have the 10th and not the 9th fret marked? The 5th, 7th and 12th are marked as one would expect.
Just a matter of curiousity, though I haven't been able to find out much about Kasugas at all.
mahalo -
auntie n
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nancy cook |
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neeej
`Olu`olu
USA
643 Posts |
Posted - 12/26/2004 : 9:28:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Auntie Nancy
Does anyone know why my Kasuga classical guitar would have the 10th and not the 9th fret marked? The 5th, 7th and 12th are marked as one would expect.
Just a matter of curiousity, though I haven't been able to find out much about Kasugas at all.
mahalo -
auntie n
A friend has one marked that way, too---diferent brand, methinks maybe Mexican in origin. As to why...dunno :-/ |
--Jean S |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 12/27/2004 : 11:34:03 AM
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Hmmm -
That's interesting... my paracho, which is Mexican is marked at the 9th fret. It's the Japanese Kasuga that's marked at the 10th fret... my guess was going to be that they have a different structure to their music, but I haven't heard that haunting stuff played on the guitar that I know of.
Mahalo...
auntie |
nancy cook |
Edited by - Auntie Nancy on 12/29/2004 2:40:35 PM |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 05:58:33 AM
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Is it a classical guitar thing? Seems to me that we had a guitar not made for slack key that had the 10th fret marked. I had a theory that it had to do with the music one played, and thus what key one played in. In standard tuning classical music, I think one of the goals is to be able to play in a number of different keys. Given that, my thought was that the 10th fret played a much more important role in these common keys than the 9th did.
just my wahi mana'o.
aloha,
Sarah
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 12:48:09 PM
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I've recently checked out a whole bunh of classical guitars - all marked on 9
Asked a luthier friend why the 10th, and he said "beats me." |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 2:42:31 PM
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Thanks All -
I think I'll leave this up for awhile and see if our friends in Japan know any more about it. My Kasuga and my Paracho look very similar and are about the same size etc..... |
nancy cook |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 2:49:16 PM
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Maybe they got a load of very large ukulele necks by mistake, besides, it actually makes sense to mark the Dominant 7th instead of the 6th. Who the heck knows????????????
Dave |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 5:51:24 PM
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Hi Dave,
I don't know much music - why the 10th fret - or a whole note below the high G or whatever scale it is? wouldn't that be like a B flat? is that part of a minor chord? I thougth the minor stepped 1/2 step down from the 5th...? I guess I could go read something and find out... but actually, I don't understand your answer.
thanks..... |
nancy cook |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 6:17:37 PM
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Nancy,
I was just being silly. A half step down from the root is a Major 7th and a whole step is the Flat or Dominant 7th, so in many ways it kind of makes sense to mark the b7. That's how most ukes are dotted. Don't fret (pardon the pun) the theory, just play.
Dave |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/29/2004 : 7:19:13 PM
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Nancy -
I agree with Dave that knowing the theory in this case is not going to make much difference.
The formula for the minor triad is I - IIIb - V. In G that is G -- Bb --- D. |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2004 : 05:41:15 AM
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Thanks Ray - I can't resist on adding that the Minor 7th chord is I - IIIb - V - VIIb. So Nancy, in this case if you're starting on the G string the VIIb is the 10th fret which is the note F. If you're playing in Taro and need to play an F chord, barre the 10th fret and strum.
One of the things I love the most about playing slack is not having to think about theory for the most part. It's playing from the heart using all those beautifully ethereal open tones. The only time I get bogged down in theory is when I'm writing and arranging.
Again, just have fun and play,
Dave |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 12/30/2004 05:42:01 AM |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2004 : 07:40:48 AM
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Thanks all -
now time i get back to practicing. I got Keola and Mark's book for Christmas - way better than the old blue one I got for Christmas last year. Finally no rain - go out, sit on back porch..... |
nancy cook |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2004 : 09:01:42 AM
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I find "theory" kinda mysterious and difficult. I'm just now starting getting into it, (i'm assuming it will make my playing better). Knowing the "language" of music will help any musician, especially in the creation part. Not too sure about playing from the heart thing, I would think you would still need to know music, to play music. Tab takes you only so far, music reading a little further. Theory I feel will allow you more freedom in creativity.
I'm always amazed whenever I see the very experienced slack key players identifying and discussing song breakdowns, and through theory, are able to just jump right into any song, cold turkey and play along. I WANT TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT!!
One cannot memorize every song, at least I can't. Maybe one day.
Maybe someone out there can explain it to me in a very simple, and easy way to follow.
pau,
-slkho |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 12/30/2004 : 12:21:06 PM
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I believe theory can be very helpful. Most introductory books cover the basics pretty well, and you need to get one which is sympatoco for you -- however, it's all based upon math and, not being a guy with a great math mind, I found it a lot better and easier to sit down with an experienced player and learn it from them --
You asked for the basics, so here's a stb --personally I glaze over when I have to read this stuff, but it is the way I explain it to students and they seem to get it -- here, however, the examples are limited. -- I'm assuming you know how to read a staff so you can follow the formulas below. (I also find a little familiarity with a piano keyboard helpful) Note that this is all from a traditional western approach.
"Notes" are vibrations at certain frequencies. Through time, a bunch of these frequencies were identified as clear, distinct and basic -- these are the basic notes that make up the scales.
There are patterns or progressions of notes that are considered basic building blocks -- these are the scales. The most often played are the major scales. All major scales follow the same formula -- Pick a starting note, next note is 1 whole step up, next is 1 step, then 1/2 step, then 1 step, then 1 step, then again 1 step, then 1/2 step, and it all repeats up an "octave" (8 steps.) (Each fret on the guitar is 1/2 step if you want to try it out On the piano , a half step is between any 2 keys, white- black, black-white or white - white)Once you get good at this, you can play the scale beginning with any note, but that gets into more advanced territory like modes.
So, let's start with the note G. The beginning note of the scale is called the Tonic or I chord. (The positions in the scale are called by their Roman numerals I, II, III, etc -- or they have special little names like I is the tonic, IV the subdominant, V the dominant.) Back to G scale. Apply the formula thus: I-G (1 step to) II-A (1 step to) III-B (1/2 step to) IV- C (1 step to) V-D (1 step to) VI-E (1 step to) VII- F# (1/2 step to) G, which starts it all again. Chords are built upon the scales. A basic G major triad is I-III-V, or G-B-D, a basic G minor chord is I - IIIb - V or G-Bb-D, A "7th" chord will start with the basic triad and add the VII of the scale (or its flatted form - there are 2 types of 7th chords.) A ninth will take the major triad and add the IX (which is the same as the II -- remember- the pattern repeats itself.) etc etc Any book will give you the formulas.
Songs are made up of melodies and progressions of chords. They focus around a basic "key" which is the scale that is "home base." Many popular songs, and most traditional Hawaiian music, are then composed primarily of 3 chords -- the I, IV and V7 of that key. (You can usually get the key by looking at the last chord, 'cause most of this music feels "completed" when it ends of the Tonic or I chord.) In "G" that means that most songs are a combination of the I chord (G) and IV chord (C) and the V7 chord (D7th.) (You can figure out the chords by going to their respective scale and applying the formulae, or by memorizing them.) Typically speaking when you play the D7, your ear would like to have it followed by the G chord. (V7 leads to or resolves in the I) You can stretch things out by going between the IV and V7 for a while, but then you want to end of the I. There are also things like extended progressions and chord substitutions, but I'm just sketching out the basics.
How do you use this in playing. Well, if you're playing rhythm behind somebody, for example, and you know their going to play the next 2 bars of the song in G major chords, you can strum a G major anywher on the fretboard and you will be "in harmony." You can also pick those notes or compose a lick based upon them, and still be in tune. If you are playing lead -- or improvising, you can fill in notes or create runs for any note, especially the longer held notes, like whole and half notes, by playing any of the notes in that specific chord, or by going to the scale of that chord and playing those notes. (Note the notion of modes comes in here - more advanced -- just remember if the chord is a major, play the notes of the major scale, as described above. If it is a minor chord, you have to use the minor scale, that is use the IIIb instead of the III, etc.
For composing, you it turns out that the I -- IV -- V7 formula yields a very easy to listen to and pleasing harmonic basis for most of the music we play in slack key.
I don't know if this will be useful to you, but that's the nutshell version of the basics as I know them I really recommend, howeverm that you pair up with someone who knows this stuff -- or take a lesson or two and tape record it -- 'cause that seems to be the way most of us learn it best. |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2004 : 07:04:57 AM
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Oh my gosh thanks Ray, I think I'll go in a corner and just see if I can play what I like to hear and sing.... slkho was supposed to be my kumu! more power to him!!! please don't anyone give me any pot scrubbers.....
Ask a "fretful" question and you never know what you'll get!
See you on Moloka'i?
Come down to LA area sometime?
auntie - |
nancy cook |
Edited by - Auntie Nancy on 12/31/2004 07:06:16 AM |
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Sarah
`Olu`olu
571 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 05:25:17 AM
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Aloha kakou,
This reminds me of something I heard when I was starting slack key, along the lines of, "You don't have to know the song. The most important thing is to know the chords in the song. That way, when Auntie gets up and sings a song, if you know the chords, you can play along."
That didn't make much sense to me then, but now I understand where they were coming from.
aloha,
Sarah |
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