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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
 Posted - 12/31/2004 : 05:43:09 AM
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Happy New Year everyone. I wish you all a happy and safe celebration and of course much success in 2005! Since this is typically a time of reflection and new year's resolutions, I'd like to ask for your help by offering constructive feedback, suggestions and criticisms about Taropatch.net. How can we make this a better place?- Not really fishing for praise, but what do you like, i.e. "what works?"
- What don't you like?
- Suggestions for improvement?
- ??? - Whatever you'd like to say?
Things along these lines. I cannot guarantee that I can address all concerns, but I'd love to hear your thoughts. I wish this could be done anonymously but this would require a lot of changing to the forum code.
If you do not want to post publicly, please email me. Mahalo nui and Hau`oli Makahiki Hou!
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Andy |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2004 : 10:56:52 AM
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Andy, please don't change much. I may be an old fart, set in my ways, but this is the first site I go to every day. It is far and away the most informative and pleasant newsgroup of its kind.
However, there are several reasons why I stopped frequenting other newsgroups. First, as newbies come on, they ask the same questions over and over again, and the same topics seem to get repeated. This gets old pretty fast and drives the early arrivers away. There are at least two or three ways to attack this problem. One is a subject FAQ (which is an awful lot of work), that is put in an obvious place, and that is required reading for a person who asks a question that has already been answered at some previous time, or who brings up a topic that has been discussed to death. Perhaps an easier way to tackle this problem is to have finer grained "forums" ( folders) for different subject matter. The recent discussions on home recording, could be one example. It will take some work, but I think some effort should be made to resort previous posts on various topics into new sub-forums. Entire threads need not be moved out of the archives, but only the most relevant postings on a particular subject. For instance, Raymond just posted an explanation of some music theory and there have been earlier attempts at that as well. It would be nice if they could all be collected together. If you gave me a mechanism, I'd be happy to help do this. At the very least, make the search function more visible and obvious and display a message encouraging its use. (The obvious problem with this is trying to find the right keywords that will return the proper information.)
Another thing that drove me from other newsgroups, was the growth of cliques. This has not happened here, and I hope it never does. Trading one line jokes in a series of posts is really tedious. In one newsgroup, people just use the subject line, and the body of the post is empty. I'm so happy that does not happen here. But I sure wish that we could get more registered people posting. There will always be a certain number of lurkers, but I would really like to know why they don't post. Knowing that, maybe we could all do something about it. Could you create a confidential forum where they could post answers to that question? Maybe that is just spitting into the wind, and maybe somebody has a better idea.
One thing that makes this place special is the continual presence of experienced performing slack key musicians like Mark, Kevin, Patrick, and others (I sure wish Don would check back in) like KonaBob and Fran. They keep all of us amateurs on the right track. I wish I could think of a way to make this place even more attractive to them. Maybe they could tell us.
Although I've written a lot, I don't think the site would change much in format or purpose.
... Reid
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 12/31/2004 : 3:14:26 PM
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You (and Reid) might be very surprised, but...
I agree almost entirely with Reid's suggestions !
(Geesh - I hate this agreeing thing... I like to
argue too much (it's the Scotch/Irish in me)).
And those of you who do not like nested parenthesis...
....Get used to it !
Back to the subject...
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Somehow, Newbies ought to be encouraged to SEARCH FIRST
and then ask questions later.
Maybe a little cutsey title thingie at the top of each
major section saying "SEARCH FIRST then SHOOT LATER"
or some other pleasant way of encouraging looking first.
Also major sections for recording, equipment, etc.
(GEAR is what they call it on the Acoustic Guitar Mag
forum ...apologies to Reid  ) might be usefull.
Going off topic is a continuing problem (opportunity) on
any forum, and I, too, find some "orthogonal thinking"
refeshing on occasion, lord knows I do it myself all the
time. Now where did that orthogonal fiddle player go?
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/01/2005 : 7:32:15 PM
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Not sure if I am supposed to reply here since I'm the one asking for feedback but... I hear your points. Reid, you're right, I think the subject FAQ is more than I would like to take on at this moment.
Hey, as early registrants, Reid and Lawrence, do you really feel that a lot of "newbie" topics are too repetitive? I know that in many, many forums, particularly in technical/client suppport forums, there is a big push for people to search first and then ask questions. But consider from a different perspective, from a social standpoint, if you're having a real gathering (not online) and someone starts a conversation with a question, nobody is going to say, "Oh, we discussed that last week, check our club newsletter." I don't know, maybe this is a silly example. It just kind of stinks to say to a first time poster, "check the FAQ." At the very least, maybe a "hi, welcome" and "check these posts for answers to your questions?"
What I'm really wondering is how can we make newbies feel more welcome and encourage more newbies to post? I'd like to see more people post because it is the diversity of people, geographies, experiences, backgrounds, music abilities that makes this a more and more interesting place.
Hey, I do appreciate your feedback and ideas. All good food for thought. Auntie Nancy, you too! |
Andy |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 07:15:20 AM
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Andy,
I agree with you. Sometimes it hard to hear the same questions over and over again, but we were all newbies once. And telling someone to hit the Search function isn't always the answer. For instance, our newest member asked what "E como mai" meant. I typed it into the TP search engine and came up with that expression many times, but no definition. It was just easier to reply to him that it meant "welcome". There are already too many political camps among the Ki Ho`alu hierarchy, let's keep this as open and helpful as possible.
If I do have one thing that bothers me it's the Profiles themselves. I know many of us like the anonymous aspect of discussion groups, but is it really so hard to put down the city and state that you live in. Personnaly, the first thing I look at with a TP newcomer is the profile. If there's nothing there, I usually don't respond until they've been around for a while. Maybe it's me, but I like to have a handle on who I'm talking to.
Anyway, Andy, great job. This is not perfect, but it's darn close.
Mahalo nui loa,
Dave |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 10:07:33 AM
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Thanks Andy and Dave.
If Lawrence and Reid aren't interested in joining a discussion, or answering a question, skip on by. The interest in ki ho'alu is as varied as are it's participants.
However, maybe the "Share a link" section could have the beginning explanation start with learn more about things Hawai'ian, places to get more in-depth knowledge. As it is, it's interesting, but intimates it's a more personal section.
And Dave, you saw where my thread about updating bios went ---. I'll get my picture up there one of these days when I get one that won't scare everyone away.
Reid gives so much to this site that I hope we can customize it a bit more to lower the frustration level of the old guys... or younger guys who've been here longer and know more.
By the way, Fran gave an excellent concise explanation of the open tuning reasons this AM - that may be an old question, but it was a great answer that probably won't be found in a literature seach.
Thanks to absoulutely everyone who shares the site.
auntie
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nancy cook |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 10:32:27 AM
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This is what I meant about "a pleasant way" to encourage folks to
search first. Yes, you don't want to present a rude or hostile
approach to newcommers. This site has far fewer newbie repeat
questions than some others that I frequent (such as AudioMasters).
In that forum, a newbie repeat question is usually responded to
by one of the "heavies" by posting a pleasant phrase and a link
to previous discussion(s), or suggesting search keywords. Sure,
searches don't always work, and often folks use poor search terms
too, but searching for basic answers should still be encouraged.
And having some basic information readily available would also
still be good idea.
Just how to accomplish these things without too much effort or
radically changing the pleasant environment is the question.
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/02/2005 10:33:17 AM |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 10:33:35 AM
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I think I misphrased or misemphasized the first part of my post. I should have included more about making it easy to find info on a particular topic for *all* of us, not only newbies. In fact, THAT was my second topic - how to get them to post more. I gave a few examples of topics that are spread out all over the place. This is a database, right? It is a wonderful resource, right? Actually a set of wonderful resources. This is a classic database design issue. Because, previously written stuff is not as easy to find as it might be. What do I use as search terms for Peter Medeiros' account of Gabby's use of "'Awiwi" if I am new to the site and don't know that Peter has posted here? What about posts on, or in, the Hawaiian language? That is why I favored some new folders that are places to put popular *or* important topics. Since I have seen hot links that referred to posts, I suggest that links could be posted in these new folders for the "old" posts (so that they could be kept in context of the previous thread) and new posts on the topic, such as "home recording" would be in that same place. Moreover, I volunteered to scan the archives and identify appropriate posts on topics we, or you, Andy, feel are important. Now, can I do that? If so, tell me how.
Andy, this is not the Real World, it is the Net. As much as we would all like it to be a "gathering" it is not. Nobody knows it, because my profile is bogus, but I am a 6 foot 5", 250 pound guy who is the cousin of the current Finance Minister of Nigeria and my real musical love is the finger piano. Now, who knows the real truth?
Andy, as for what stinks? It is a matter of sytle as well as substance. As one example, I think trying to get something for nothing, like tabs or recordings stinks. It is a constant in every guitar newsgroup on the Net. Everyone in the world knows that it is a no-no Intelectual Property issue and they still probe. That's in your FAQ, but,apparently, you don't mind telling them, in your gentle way, about the policy (or some other kind soul like Craig will tell them). I ain't gentle about that kind cockaroaching. Do you think those kinds of posts will ever cease here?
TP.net is, in the scheme of things, relatively new. Why do you think luthiers like Lance and Hank and Paul McGill and performers like Adrian Legg and Rick Ruskin post so rarely now on rec.music.makers.guitar.acoustic anymore? Because its same-old same-old. You just wait, my friend.
...Reid |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 3:13:40 PM
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I have mixed feelings about this --
On the one hand, I understand that folks new to slack key want to get at resources and have the same kinds of questions I had as a beginner. On the other hand, there are times when I see posts like that and just blow past them, other times when, for some reason, I will reply. Probably just how the original quiery hits me. I don't know how to "institutionalize" and answer. So... for example, I just recently posted a reply to a new person on the site suggesting they look up the info at Dancing Cat. Took me a few seconds. No big deal.
As to a searchable database -- yeah, that would be a useful tool for me -- but wouldn't someone have to prepare and monitor useable "key words?"
And yes, it would be wonderful to hear from others more often. For example, I know there are Hawaiians out there whose insights are worth gold, but who don't join in much. |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/02/2005 : 3:41:19 PM
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Raymond,
If there were more categories, you would not have to worry about keywords, Don't think Google (which is the best of its kind), think sets and subsets. Also, don't think "Standard Sets" where an item is a member or it is not, i.e, membership function is from [1,0]. It is really simple, even with Snitz, to make multiple relations. The political, hard part, is thinking of names for the sets (categories)that will please most of the people most of the time.
And, your referral of that person to DC was nice, but can you do it daily? I am always concerned about posterity and always have been. You know: "A Nation of Laws, not of Men". (Apologies to na wahine who were not in the minds of the Dead White Men who founded the USA).
...Eban Manula Woghiren |
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Puna
Lokahi
USA
227 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 08:49:14 AM
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Aloha kakou
As Reid said, among other things, this site is a database. However, as one who works daily with databases, I know that one of the most frustrating things can be trying to get usable info back out of the database. At best, search functions only return the requested info. If you aren't exactly certain of what you are looking for, you may not get the answer you desire.
This site has an advantage in that the 'early registrants' often act as the most advanced search function and point towards the answer...sometimes by refering to earlier posts, sometimes by referencing other websites like Dancing Cat or Mele.com, and sometimes by providing personal contact.
Perhaps an all-inclusive FAQ is not the answer. A better idea may be to have a topic that stays on top with a title like "New members please look here first". This topic can have links to the FAQ, but also to frequently repeating threads, like 'what are the best strings', 'sharing tabs and sources of tabs', "home recording made easy', and so on.
That might reduce the number of repeat questions (which doesn't seem that intrusive, anyway). And, I know that I would probably use it as a reference when I wanted to go back and review a topic.
As for 'lurkers', some of us just are. Whether on-line or in person, I tend to watch the ebb and flow of interactions, only jumping in when I wish. This site has no pressure to post, but still has great flow.
Andy, I don't really have any suggestions for improvement. I come from a large ohana, and this has the same feel.
Puna |
Puna |
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cmdrpiffle
`Olu`olu
USA
553 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 10:53:52 AM
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Andy,
Maybe do away with the emoticons?
They scare me so.
Especially that scary clown face on the right.
all better now,
Mike |
my Poodle is smarter than your honor student |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:03:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
I suggest that links could be posted in these new folders for the "old" posts (so that they could be kept in context of the previous thread) and new posts on the topic, such as "home recording" would be in that same place. Moreover, I volunteered to scan the archives and identify appropriate posts on topics we, or you, Andy, feel are important. Now, can I do that? If so, tell me how.
Okay, Reid the Nigerian Sumo. To pass up a volunteer would be such a wasted opportunity.
I'm not sure I get it though. Is it like a Taropatch.net hall-of-fame of postings? Well, maybe not HoF but some great stuff along with common q&a's? Is it so simple or something more complex? And how many categories are you thinking? |
Andy |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:10:11 AM
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 .......
...........B o o !
 . . . . . . .
 . .. . . . .
.... . . .
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
Edited by - Lawrence on 01/03/2005 11:25:57 AM |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:18:28 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Lawrence
...........B o o !
I guess that's the last we'll see of cmdrpiffle for a while... he's going to have to go through therapy all over again. |
Andy |
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 11:27:53 AM
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Yeah, I guess he watched too many of those "Halloween" movies as a kid.
Sorry Piffle, just "Clowning" around !
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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