| Author |
 Topic  |
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
 Posted - 01/03/2005 : 2:14:47 PM
|
RE: Disagreements on this topic
I've met a few dozen TP.net 'ohana members in person and conversed with many more via this forum and I have never met anyone who wasn't respectful of slack key's home culture and diligent about learning more. So even if we disagree about the role of race and culture in the music, we are doing Hawaiian music a service by sharing our affection for it.
That makes this the best website on the internet to relax and learn about the music.
Jesse Tinsley |
 |
|
|
slackkeymike
Lokahi
440 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 2:54:58 PM
|
Keali'i Reichel, Israel Kamakawiwo'ole both include "traditional american pop" songs on their CDs. At first, this struck me as odd, but then after listening to them several times, I came to understand this...the same thing that is being talked about here. Pops makes a good point about seeking masters and masters being open to this. Without seekers and open masters, the artform could very well pass into history, never to be heard of again...so sad. I am so glad that there are masters who will work with students. If I were a master, I would most definitely want to pass this on...something I had spent a lifetime learning. For some, that is how immortality is achieved!
|
Aloha, Mike |
|
|
|
Kahalenahele
Lokahi
USA
102 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 3:15:58 PM
|
I agree with pretty much all of your points, Raymond, and I agree with Russell's comments that it applies to many forms of music.
When I listen to the Taropatch CD, it's apparent to me that all of the performers are respectful, showing affection for the music and culture, etc. But I can't help but feel that I'm "faking it" when I'm playing Hawaiian or blues music. Not so much when I'm playing hapa haole songs, or Johnny Noble songs. But I'm never going to have that deep, intense connection when I'm playing slack key or singing some song about how sad and lonely I am. I may be able to perform them, but it's a role. I'll continue to learn as much as I can about the history and the present culture of Hawaii, but I don't think I'll ever hit the "deep place" you've mentioned.
A totally separate topic is performers who play "da blooz" (I think it's much more prevalent in blues than Hawaiian or Romany music), otherwise known in shorthand as white guys wearing fedoras. I suppose hearing mainlanders who have never lived in Hawaii and didn't grow up speaking pidgin using it would fall into that category. Learning and speaking Hawaiian doesn't fall into this category - I think that falls under learning about and respecting the culture. |
|
|
|
Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 4:12:51 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by RJS
Bill,
Please reread my posts - at no point did I say mainlanders, or others, "Can never be able to play it properly."
---------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Raymond. I will re-phrase it then. You asked, 'Can a mainland haole really play Hawaiian slack key'?
And what I meant to say was this - I would think that the island artists who have faithfully taught slack key to the many mainlanders who have fallen in love with the music, including me, would be very dismayed at the thought that they were just wasting their time teaching the music to mainland haoles who won't ever be able to really play Hawaiian slack key. I hope that is better.
I think, or at least I hope, Raymond, that we all understand your dilemma because it is something that will always be in our minds, simply because we are not Hawaiian. Ozzie told me once that he hasn't a drop of Hawaiian blood in him, but who amongst us would say that he can't really play Hawaiian slack key because of it. Of course, he isn't a mainland haole, so that is a little different.
On New Years Eve I played 3 45 minute sets at First Night Williamsburg, VA. This is the 3rd year I have done that. You can see from this URL how I am billed -
http://www.firstnightwilliamsburg.org/performances.html
Lots of people from all over the country came, applauded, bought lots of CDs, came up after the sets and talked story about their Hawaiian experiences. No one seemed to care that, even though I wore an Aloha shirt and played in Taro Patch tuning, that I wasn't a real Hawaiian.
But, since I always make a point of starting off each set, after playing 'Na Lei O Hawaii', by saying 'I guess you are wondering what a good ol' boy in Virginia is doing playing Hawaiian slack key guitar music', it is obvious that some of the same things that perplex you affect me the same way (else I wouldn't feel the need to 'apologize').
Raymond, can you listen to the cuts on my CD and tell that I am not a native Hawaiian? This is a loaded question because I have been told by countless Hawaiians, artists as well as aficianados, most recently as 3 days ago, that they couldn't. Before I released my CD, I sent advance copies to Eddie and Myrna Kamae, Ozzie Kotani, Hal Kinnaman, Jack Larkins (who wrote one of the songs), and George Winston. They were all very complimentary of my playing and my selection of material.
I guess, then, that my bottom line answer to your question is, 'Yes, a mainland haole can really play Hawaiian slack key', just as a Hawaiian like Ledward can really play country, John Keawe can play folk music, and other Hawaiian slack key artists can play pop music - all in Taro Patch, all nahenahe.
You got a very good thread started. I am sure that Andy is pleased.
Bill
|
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 4:50:45 PM
|
Bill, my music was "veted" (sp?) by 4 "Masters." I know what I play is outwardly in the ball park of slack key. For me, outer forms are less important than the im-material realities playing through them. I still don't think that, with some possible exceptions, most people cannot play from that deep spiritual place if you cannot connect to the "spirit" elements playing through the music. I don't see how you can do that with traditional Hawaiian music just by learning the notes and phrases. That certainly goes for myself. That is not an insult to any teacher -- 'cause the teachers generally teach the outer forms, unless you establish some kind of deeper connection ala a master/apprentice. I can't speak for all the folks you mentioned, but I know from my discussions that most of the "masters" I respect had that relationship. To use a parallel example -- I have been responsible for the primary field training of 47 therapists (psychologists.) 45 of them are competant technicians for whom I would not have a problem writing a letter of recommendation. Only 3 of them operate from a deeper level - they really "get" it - and those are the only ones to whom I would trust myself or my family. That doesn't mean I failed or that the others aren't competant therapists - they are not "soul" healers but that is very rare.
In my opinion, playing competant slack key are playing from the "heart" of slack key are different, and not many get to the latter level. I don't think I have. Kudos to you. |
|
|
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 5:18:16 PM
|
Nice work at First Night, Bill (though I didn't see any photos of you at the website). My family went to a First Night in Spokane, WA, and there wasn't any slack key, so I'm going to try and get on the schedule for next year.
I think we can all be slack key ambassadors wherever we are. I play luaus and people are almost always appreciative.
But an all-Hawaiian audience might not be as open to a mainland slack key artist. Racism? Maybe. Communication is always two-sided because the audience partly determines the success of the communication, not just the speaker (or singer). The most successful musical communicators fall into the category of "entertainer" because they can find a bridge to just about any audience and touch them emotionally. All the slack key masters are great entertainers, as are many part-time and amateur players. Some of us, though, just play the music. What's the difference?
Thanks to Raymond for opening a discussion. Perhaps we can discus how we can bridge the culture gap and be better entertainers with our slack key.
Jesse Tinsley |
|
|
|
Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 5:44:12 PM
|
Raymond, I agree with everything you say. But, didn't you mean to say, 'I still don't think that, with some possible exceptions, most people CAN play from that deep spiritual place if you cannot connect to the "spirit" elements playing through the music'? If so, I agree. When you play slack key guitar, you open up your heart, mind, and soul to your audience, and there is 'no net'. They can read you like a book.
So, you are exactly right about the spiritual aspect of it. But, don't be too hard on yourself. At least you can sing some slack key songs, and pretty well, and I would never try that, for the same reasons that I DO play the guitar. I can make you think I am a native with the guitar, but I would never be able to fool anyone with singing, no matter how much I tried. Even then, I would never have had the nerve to take it to the recording/performing level without the support and encouragement of the Hawaiian artists I mentioned in my last post. I guess we are talking about semantics, Raymond, when you say 'play Hawaiian slack key'; because, granted, there are many levels of 'Play', just as there are in other genres.
Jesse, thanks for the compliment. Go for it. You may have competition out there on the West Coast, (maybe not so much in Seattle), but don't let that stop you. That is one problem that I don't have. I have yet to see another slack key performer this far East. Lots of people have been to Hawaii and love the music, but I keep looking for another person around here who is a slack key performer, with no luck. So, I get the 'First Nighters' looking for slack key guitar music by default. I went to First Night on Kauai in 1996, and it was so much fun. Ohana O Kauai played a long time (Paul Togioka's group), but they didn't have it any more because they couldn't get enough volunteers. But, get your application in early because the selection commitees meet early in the year.
Pictures? Yep, they have about 60 performers at about 27 venues, and not everyone gets into the photo Gallery. But, in my case, it is just as well. Not a pretty sight.
Aloha, Bill |
|
|
|
Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 6:12:24 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Russell Letson
As for myself, I play gypsy swing with a gadjo (and specifically American) accent, and I'm certain that any slack key that I manage will always retain a mainland accent--but that's a reflection on my technical limitations as a musician, not anything printed on my psyche.
Russell, this is a very informative post. I love the term 'poachee'. Sometimes, some of the Hawaiian people consider us to be just that.
But, concering the above quote, I agree that we will never be able to lose that which is imbued in us, and I don't know if that is a bad thing. Sort of what Raymond is alluding to. Paul Togioka told Hal Kinnaman, while I was playing, that it sounded like 'Chet Atkins playing slack key'. I am not sure that he meant it as a compliment, but, since I learned Chet's style a long time before I ever discovered slack key, I take it as one. But, maybe that is a little thing that serves to differentiate me from others, just like gadjo does for you and polkas do for Raymond. But, it is still slack key. I think it is.
Bill |
|
|
|
Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 6:45:57 PM
|
Ok, Bill is right, this is a fascinating post and I am happy. Welcome back Bill, good to see you. And I will see you play someday!
Raymond, for me, you may rephrase your question to, "Can a mainland pake play slack key?"
The question seems so simple but there are just so many layers to consider. And perhaps the differences in opinions among us are rooted in our own personal definitions of what slack key is.
Without stating my own opinion at this moment, may just throw out a few thoughts. - It is my understanding that Auntie Alice Namakelua once said that that Gabby Pahinui did not play real slack key because he did not play in the traditional style but incorporated many different styles including jazz.
- Ozzie Kotani, whom some of you have mentioned, did not find immediate acceptance as a slack key artist in Hawai`i because he is of Japanese decent, not Hawaiian.
- Patrick Landeza, who posts here, is often separately labeled as a mainland artist because he did not grow up in Hawai`i even though he has some Hawaiian blood in him.
This is a complex issue. Is it Haole vs. Hawaiian? Non-Hawaiian vs. Hawaiian? Born and raised on island vs. off island? Tradition vs. Innovation?
Does an understanding of and connection to Hawaiian culture define the essense of slack key? Or does it just help the artist better understand his/her craft? Is the emotion evoked in one's playing (let's look at an instrumental) rooted in the performer's understanding of the kaona of the song or technique (vibrato, dynamics, etc) or perhaps both? Certainly, the slack key masters who were born in Hawai`i still had to dedicate many, many hours, days, weeks and years to practicing and honing their crafts.
How is do those characteristics add up to your definition of what slack key means to you? And does one carry more weight than the other? I guess depending on the ratio the answer to "Can a mainland haole play slack key?" can be yes and no???
Ps. Thanks Darin for one helluva compliment. It means a lot coming from you, a real musician! |
Andy |
|
|
|
RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/03/2005 : 8:47:22 PM
|
| Nicely put |
|
|
|
Maureen
Aloha
USA
44 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 01:18:51 AM
|
| My concern is just that it stay connected with the Hawaiian culture and not just become one of many styles of guitar players and get lost to the culture. I feel a real sadness that it is not made more available to our keiki. We get exposed to everything else, lei making, ipu heke making, ceremonies, etc., and there are 'ukulele lessons everywhere and large groups of haumana for that, but there just is not too much for slack-key. On the one hand, the masters talk about it like it's thriving. On the other hand, I have heard a couple of people call it a "dying art" with "only a handful of real slack-key masters left." I just wish there were classes available, that somebody would take an interest in making it available to our kids. |
Me ke aloha,
Maulena |
|
|
|
Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 07:49:30 AM
|
Oh goody, another problematic discussion I can detract from :-)
Just a few things, though.
Remember at the QA session at the first AMC (those of you who were there) when George, Ozzie and Keola were asked how many of their students were, or had been, Hawaiian? The answer was 1 (George), 0 and 0. Then Keola said something like: "It is not the color of your skin that counts, it is what is in your heart." Believe it, non-Hawaiians are keeping the art form alive. (And are there any truly pure Hawaiians left outside of Ni`ihau?) I know the answer to that question, BTW.
Jesse said, quite properly that it is understanding the Land and The People that gives you the inner understanding of the music. I adamantly add an understanding of the Language, because it is the language that reflects the internal World View or Ethos, or outlook of the People, any People. It *is* the defining element of a culture. When we spent time on the Navaho and Hopi reservations, we knew all about the history, ancient and modern of the Dineh(what the Navaho call themselves - The People) and Hopi. We learned some of the language, we listened to the Dineh radio every day for a month. We knew how to behave and we knew how they behave. When we go to France, we speak French and when we go to Switzerland we speak German and French, and when I spent a half year in Sweden I spoke Svensk and acted Swedish and they thought I was. It goes without saying that we have a thorough knowledge of the history of those countries.
As for Sarah and me, we have learned that it is important to be there,and not as a tourist in a Ka`anapali hotel room. Each of our trips, except the first (which was sort of an accident) has been a pilgrimage to places of historical importance or that has been mentioned in, or the subject of, a song. We have blanketed the Big Island, Maui, and O`ahu. I won't detail every place, but just mention one place and time. We rented an apartment(real cheap too) for 3 days on the lip of Waipi`o. We *walked* down and in and out - no jeep or horsie ride. We walked most of the way to Hi`ilawe but were stopped by the rushing rugged stream (although we could see the double falls perfectly well). We watched the people who live there and we were invited into the garden of one house. On our last climb out, halfway up, Sarah stopped and turned to look a farewell, and sang a half-chant about Waipi`o. I can tell you there was plenny makawai right then (and is as I write this).
In our little cabal of 2, I am the history and anthroplogy and archaeology expert. Wanna know about bones and fish hooks and feathered Gods? We know our `aumakua is a honu. Everywhere we go we see honu and, once, when following one, he/she turned directly at me and led us away from a dangerous surf break on the SW cliff of Honolua.
Sarah thinks like a Hawaiian because she is so immersed in the language, the poetry, the tales, the myths, the histories - all in the original. I read them all in translation (or she translates for me) because I only know about 300 words. She has subscriptions to Hawaiian newspapers and we have an extensive library that we have built up. She reads the Star-Bull Hawaiian page all the time. She reads Keola Donaghy's accounts of learning Gaelic in Ireland (Yeah, tell Keola he ain't Irish :-). She composes in Hawaiian and she knows the references to the places and Gods and Demigods and the histories. She knows 99% of the kaona and she knows what sounds like kaona, but isn't. Every single day she reads, writes and sings in Hawaiian. The only problem she has is in swift conversation, because, regretfully, there is nobody near here in CT who she can speak to.
Is this work? Yeah, but she (and peripherally, I) loves it.You can not speak Hawaiian without being a poet. (One evening we had some Yale students from Hawai`i over for dinner and one girl said she was going home for vacation - in Hawaiian. This was, literally, "Going back to The Sands of my birth." Great, yeah?)
Putting this effort in is what you have to do if you are madly in love with something. And, BTW, Sarah and I never do anything we are not totally serious about. Life is too short to putz around.
...Reid
PS. Jesse, a mostly local audience heard Sarah sing and play "The Toad Song" at the Blue Marlin, backed up by Don, Boy and Trevor. *Everyone* rushed out of the bar and the other dining rooms to hear her. It was a stampede. Andy turned to me, laughing, and said "Reid, you have created a monster." So, Locals *will* accept, and love a blonde white woman playing and singing Hawaiian music, if it is done right. |
Edited by - Reid on 01/04/2005 07:57:18 AM |
|
|
|
Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 07:58:27 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Reid
I adamantly add an understanding of the Language, because it is the language that reflects the internal World View or Ethos, or outlook of the People, any People. It *is* the defining element of a culture.
Interesting. Does that preclude the legitimacy of the instrumental (non-spoken) interpretation of the Ethos? Ozzie doesn't sing. When I hear his music, I don't hear any words. In fact, one can add words in his given language, be it French, Spanish, or even English. And I don't think the lack of words lessens the beauty of the sounds of the instrument alone.
Bill |
|
|
|
hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 08:10:23 AM
|
Bravo, Reid.
Being half Hawaiian and from the mainland, I struggle to figure out if I have the cultural resume to be Hawaiian or if I'm just a caucasian who tans well in the summer.
But you and Sarah are A LOT more Hawaiian than me.
But I was hoping that while chanting with George Kahumoku at the Nakalele heiau that the skies would open up and a voice would announce that I am now, officially, Hawaiian. Didn't happen. Shoots.
Jesse Tinsley |
|
|
|
Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 09:01:24 AM
|
Bill Campbell wrote, "Paul Togioka told Hal Kinnaman, while I was playing, that it sounded like 'Chet Atkins playing slack key'. I am not sure that he meant it as a compliment. . . ."
If he was thinking of Chet's first attempt at "`Opihi Moe Moe," it may be less than flattering--Chet played with a *very* strong Nashville accent on that one. He learned better when he went to Honolulu with "Prairie Home Companion," though.
But seriously--musicians breed like cats, pretty indiscriminately, which is why there are so many beautifully different cats, and so much interestingly cross-bred music. Slack key is *already* cross-cultural, and what's happening to it now is just an extension of the process that generated it more than a century ago, but turned outward from the Islands rather than inward. The famous Auntie Alice comments about Gabby (and Ray, and probably anyone else of their generation) was that he didn't play *real old-style* slack key--"one note, one time"--as she had learned it just after the turn of the century. (I have a recording of her saying this, courtesy of her student Greg Pang--and I'm sure that Ozzie or George Kuo can confirm the kind of thing she would say.) So Gabby's slack key was influenced by the swing he loved as a kid. And Sonny's slack key was very strongly influenced by Portuguese and other Latin traditions--Gabby would tease him about the "Portagee" stuff. Leonard Kwan introduced swing chords in his tunes. Keola Beamer's music has an unmistakable New Age component (to say nothing of the pop strain of his 1970s material). Dennis Kamakahi can write some pretty country-sounding material. And so on, into the night. While the center of any Hawaiian-roots music will remain with Hawaiians (and with people like Sarah and Reid, who absorb as much of the language and culture as they can), that center itself moves, and attempts to nail it down, to fix it in a way that stops the dynamic, will turn it into something like fossilized "Dixieland" straw-hat jazz (not to be confused with what is still played by old guys in New Orleans), or into a static quasi-sacred music. Look at how ossified bluegrass has become. (I'll duck behind the sofa now to avoid the bricks hurled by bluegrass afficianados.)
To me, most of the circle-drawing and limit-setting looks political (in the large, quasi-psychological sense), a reaction to the stresses put on Hawaiian culture since the US stole the Islands, and as usual, the politics have everything to do with issues outside the making of art. There will always be an audience for meretricious, half-understood crap presented as exotic art, and there will always be people who look for something more authentic (in the historical, artistic, and pyschological senses), and we shouldn't fuss too much about that situation. The crap, like the poor, we always have with us. (Though I'm not sure that God loves crap because we make so much of it.)
|
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Topic Locked
