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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
 Posted - 01/04/2005 : 10:44:54 AM
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Bill, Ozzie does sing. Last time we talked with him on Maui(about a year and a half ago), he said he was thinking about recording a CD on which he does sing. The issue with him is that he is very diffident, for reasons that Andy mentioned. He knows the Hawaiian language, Pidgin, Standard English and (I am sure, but have not heard him speak it) Japanese. Besides, he *lives* there and has absorbed everything about his environment with great intensity. His first teacher, Peter, posted here about how hard he worked at his art.
I am also sure that a fine guitarist can emulate, to a vanishing degree of difference, the sound, the nuances, of any guitar style, if the artist puts his/her mind to it.
But, that was actually not about the point I was trying to make (perhaps poorly). It was about the determinants of "Culture" or *a* culture. We have had this part of the discussion before, but I'll bring it up again. Slack key arose as an accompaniment to stories in song. Sarah can sing 10 or 14 verses(there are choke verses of most trad songs)of Pa`ahana as she plays the guitar. The old time audience insisted that the story be told. Ha`ina ia mai ana ka puana: Let the story be told. Pure instrumentals are relatively new. So, tell me, as a fine guitarist, do you know the proper place to modulate amplitude or expression if you don't know what the meaning of the word or phrase that was originally sung at that point in the piece meant?
The same for Hula. Ask any kumu why they do what they do: it is never about moving the body, it is about the story, the language.
This does not mean that you gotta be full blooded Polish to do the polka or sing about Stashu Pondowski. We are all mixed immigrants and everyone in the islands is chop suey, too. So, as Russell said, the exclusions of people simply because of their race or ethnicity or birthplace is a stress reaction and essentially political. But, the artist can not think merely of notes. There is work to be done.
...Reid |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:33:15 AM
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Great discussions, thank you.
Reid -- I get what you're saying from some very limited experience, which is why I made the original posting -- not so much to say "you play slack key, you don't" -- but to get us talkig - and thinking about the deeper stuff present in the music we so often (ok, at least me so oveften) take for granted. And the images in these songs -- the carriers of the poetry -- has to be "gotten" if you're gonna "get" the song. At least I think so, at least at this time.
Amateur really means someone who loves the subject with which they are involved. Every time I fell in love with someone, I kept wanting to know more about her, experience her at more and more levels. Why not the same with music? |
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Bill Campbell
Akahai
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:40:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Reid
So, tell me, as a fine guitarist, do you know the proper place to modulate amplitude or expression if you don't know what the meaning of the word or phrase that was originally sung at that point in the piece meant?
Yes, Reid, I understand quite well what you are saying. And, I used Ozzie as just one example of the many slack key instrumentalists who I have heard play - that is, they just play notes, don't sing. All of the current slack key artists, from time to time, just play the melody, don't sing.
In any musical genre, for a given song, there are sometimes hundreds of interpretations of the same song (Amazing Grace, for example). And, I don't think that any of the musicians who play the song think for a second about any nuances, amplitude modulations, or any other facet of the song, other than whatever comes from their heart; of course, limited by their experience with the instrument. I don't think that one has to be proficient in Gaelic in order to be a successful Celtic musician. Same goes for any other language. When Raymond Kane says that he was motivated to write an instrumental song by seeing the fish jumping in the moonlight, I don't think that it is necessary for the slack key guitarist to completely re-live his experience in order to interpret the song. Neither does he.
How can Dennis Kamakahi possibly know the proper place to modulate amplitude or expression when he doesn't know the words to all of the verses of 'Around The World In 80 Days'? Same for all of the other slack key recordings of songs that don't have Hawaiian words. Is it not possible to create a work that is only instrumental, without words? If not, then what does that say about Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, et al. Musicians all over the world have interpreted their work, without the slightest knowledge of what they had in mind when they wrote the work.
Reid, what requirements does one have to meet, in your opinion, in order to be qualified to just sit down and compose a 'slack key song'. Is it necessary to be a Hawaiian? Do the thoughts of the composer have to be in Hawaiian? Could it be just a Californian who has some Hawaiian blood but doesn't speak the language? These are not rhetorical, I would like to know your criteria. I have composed some that I consider slack key, published some, recorded some, and have never had anyone question the authenticity of any of them.
When I play, in any language, I decide when to modulate amplitude, tempo, and timbre, as an expression of myself, not as an interpretation of what someone else may or may not have felt at the time of composition. Everyone else does also. If that wasn't so, we would only need one recording of each song, because they would, by your criteria, have to all sound exactly alike. When Sarah sings 10 or 14 verses of a song, I am sure that they are not all the same - that is, the words are different, inflections, length of certain notes change with each verse. So, would it be necessary for an instrumentalist to have to play them all differently, and would anyone be able to tell which verse is being played? I have a hard time with that one.
While it may please you to wait until you are positive that you have captured the total essence of every facet of a song, including lyrics and melody, before you attempt to play it, there are many others who, as I do, while respecting that self-restraint, don't feel the necessity of expressing anything other than their own feelings, their own translation of the song. After all, Frank Sinatra doesn't sing 'My Way' the same way Paul Anka, who wrote it, sings it, but they both do it, as I do, their way.
Cheers, Bill |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 11:54:26 AM
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Not to argue with Reid so much as to make some rather fussy distinctions that might help in future discussion: In most traditions I'm familiar with, instrumental music develops out of song and/or dance and eventually takes on a life of its own. Slack key has roots in Hawaiian-language song and in 19th-century hula ku`i (which means we're back to song/story via dance). But. Instrumental music often separates itself from its song roots (dance is, and should be, harder to shake). Thus around 1937 Uncle Ray composed "Punahele," an inherently wordless exploration of wahine-tuning figures. I've never heard him or anyone mark the instrumental nature of this composition as anything unusual or innovative. A decade later, Gabby recorded the "Hula Medley," which seems to me to separate the tunes from their dance context and reimagine them as instrumental music. (Is there such a thing as a medley in hula practice?)
It's clear that while slack key's strongest historical and social connection is to song, there has for at least half of its life been a tradition of purely instrumental composition, and most players had their show-off pieces that were guitaristic (or even gymnastic) rather than vocal in their inspiration--think Sonny, Uncle Fred Punahoa, and Ledward. While Leonard Kwan arranged many songs, his original compositions are pure instrumentals. This seems to me to be absolutely typical of the way traditions develop, not unlike the way fancy Doc-Watson-style flatpicking developed out of Appalachian fiddle-driven string-band music, which originally mixed song and dance. (Almost all those old dance tunes have words.) Similarly, swing tunes get cut loose from their original lyrics--"Cherokee" and "Limehouse Blues" both have words that almost nobody sings (or even knows). (And often there weren't any--many Ellington compositions had words retrofitted for commercial reasons.)
How I do go on. But I'm very nervous about tendencies to go all mystical about Hawaiian music or to assign to it any special status beyond its own historical particulars. "My mistress' eyes are nothing like the sun"--but that don't mean she ain't my sweetie.
Yr. obt. svt.,
Prof. Dryasdust
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 01/04/2005 11:58:19 AM |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 12:54:48 PM
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Time for putting my foot in my mouth, er, that is, to state my opinion. Yes, I think that anyone can play the real thing...if that is what is in their heart. I have mastered some aspects of the style, but when I am inside myself and looking for the melodies which say "this is me" then I think it ceases to be slack key per se. Let me explain: if what you hear in your heart is slack key music and that is also what comes out of your instrument, then it is real by definition. I feel much the same way about Celtic music: I play some songs with extreme grace and have been praised for my realistic interpretations. However, this is not real for me, since what I hear in my head is NOT interpretations of traditional tunes, but original melodies and arangements. I am in America, so if it is original and it comes from America it is American Music. At least it is to me. If I was satisfied with other peoples tunes and was able to find self expression in other peoples tunes, then I could say I was playing in that style and that it was authentic. If you are a haole (I think that's the term) and you are playing your own arrangement of Punahele like you hear it in your heart (and not a note for note translation from an album) then it is real as far as I am concerned. Sadly, this tells me that THIS haole (myself) does not play real slack key music because for me, real music is original - music and words. Some of what I have written could be packaged as if it were slack key, but that would be so much packaging. I love slack key music. I use the tunings and I have incorporated many of the melodic runs such that they sound authentic. But then if I am called to I wander away from that, even in mid song. If authenticity is the true measure of the style, I'll just hang up my hat now - my music is authentic in that it is exactly what I want to play, regardless of style. If I am in a circle and playing someone elses song and that happens to be a slack key piece, then that could be seen as real. Now that I have portrayed myself as an idiot and espoused an opinion I think nobody here will agree with, I will stop now with one final thought. I feel that the music has to come first. When I hear a piece by Led or Keola I think that they are playing from the heart. That is what I am trying to do. That is the real sprirt of music, not to slavishly follow an idiom or chase a dream of authenticity. I somehow doubt that the real players are doing anything else themselves. Now you can flame me or ignore me, I don't care. I'm going to pick up my 12 string and play something real. I know it will be real 'cause I have no idea where I'm going to go or what I'm going to play, and that's the way I like it.
Stringbreaker - Crazy Man Tuning |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 1:30:15 PM
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Bill wrote (I don't like Snitz'z quote feature or its smilies, so forgive me :-):
"Reid, what requirements does one have to meet, in your opinion, in order to be qualified to just sit down and compose a 'slack key song'."
First, my opinion doesn't count for much in the scheme of things, so I wouldn't worry about it. But, you have raised a slightly different issue than I was addressing: composition. Answer: if it sounds right to an experienced listener. I was talking about the "traditional" repertoire.
"Is it necessary to be a Hawaiian?"
Of course not. I thought I made that clear.
" Do the thoughts of the composer have to be in Hawaiian?"
Not unless you are writing lyrics.
"Could it be just a Californian who has some Hawaiian blood but doesn't speak the language?"
Definitely. I am a total haole from CT and I have composed variations on "Kalena Kai", for instance. It was a challenge, because the original (not written by a Hawaiian, BTW) is so simple in chord structure. You have to work at it to make it interesting. The result sounds perfectly fine to me, and I stole licks from Uncle Ray and an unusal one in a C modulated bridge, from Leonard. ("Good composers steal, bad composers borrow" - who was that famous composer who said that - I can't remember?) so, I guess I borrowed.
"These are not rhetorical, I would like to know your criteria. I have composed some that I consider slack key, published some, recorded some, and have never had anyone question the authenticity of any of them."
And I am not questioning them either. Again, I was talking about the large trad repertoire and/or writing lyrics for the melody.
In addition, several "Masters" got the meanings and emphases wrong because of language problems. I can give a list of a few (and why) if anyone is interested (probably not).
...Reid
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 3:29:36 PM
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Hey folk in Hawai'i ....
At least I, and I think others, would be very interested in your ideas,feelings around these subjects. |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/04/2005 : 8:58:51 PM
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I don't think you would find a consensus about the importance of Hawaiian-ness in music or any facet of modern life.
I asked Kahale, my first cousin who is almost full-blood Hawaiian (maybe a kepani in the woodpile), what being Hawaiian means to him. He said "it's just the aloha spirit, that's all." He doesn't subscribe to any mystical or spiritual mindmeld among native people. He sells insurance.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
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Auntie Maria
Ha`aha`a
USA
1918 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 05:38:09 AM
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Although I don't play an instrument, I'm reading every post on this thread with great interest. What a wonderful discussion!
For those who are interested in learning more about composers of Hawaiian music, you'll find bio info at the Hawaiian Music Hall of Fame site:
http://www.hawaiimusicmuseum.org/honorees/honorees.html
FYI - "Kalena Kai" was composed by Charles E. King, who (according to his bio) was 1/4 Hawaiian. |
Auntie Maria
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My "Aloha Kaua`i" radio show streams FREE online every Thu & Fri 7-9am (HST)
www.kkcr.org - Kaua`i Community Radio
"Like" Aloha Kauai on Facebook, for playlists and news/info about island music and musicians!
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 10:54:01 AM
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Thanks for the additional info about King, Maria. None of his books or accounts that I have note that. I guess I am about 1 or 2% Mongol, as the Golden Hordes rampaged through the steppes where my ancestors were tending horse in about 1200AD (true) :-) My mother has the eyes.
...Reid |
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chunky monkey
Ha`aha`a
USA
1022 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 12:47:03 PM
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| My father got a blood transfusion in Hawaii during WWII. I COULD be be part Hawaiian. |
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ohanabrown
Lokahi
281 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 1:36:04 PM
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Aloha, Taropatch Ohana's
I have been reading this thread for the past few days, and wanted to give an in-put about this subject, but was afraid that others may take it wrong, and since this is a new year, I wanted to start of the year with a positive beginning, especially here on taropatch. Then Raymond wanted to hear about what we thought of this subject, being from the islands. Mahalo Raymond for giving me the push i needed. Again this is what... I .... feel about this thread. Before starting, I Love You Guy's.
1. You don't have to be Japanese to do, "Bon Dance" ( japanese festival held to remember the ancestors that have passed on.) I look forward every year in attending this festival. People form a huge circle and dance for hours. In the circle you have all different "Nationalitys" dancing to the same motions, and believing in what there doing and paying tribute to those that have passed on.
2.Don't have to be Filipino to do the "Bamboo Dance" once a year they have a festival celebrating the filipino culture, I go there because the food is great, and to support there culture and to watch there bamboo dance. To do the dance you will need 4 people, 2 will kneel and hold the bamboo closing and opening the bamboo to a certain beat, the 2 kneeling represnt the hunters. The other 2 are the dancers, they have to dance, stepping in between the bamboos that open and close, without there foot getting caught. timing for the dancers is important. The 2 dancers represent the "Crain" ( Bird ). This ceremony is, trying to have the hunters catch the crain, because sometimes it can be a pest to the crops and plants. They also use different "Nationalitys" in doing this cultural dance.
What has this got to do with Slack Key? No matter what culture we learn about, we do it because we're fascinated by what attracts us to these different cultures, and what they have to offer, so we learn and study about them, even if we know we're not of that race, we do it all for the "Love" ( which ever culture it is.) and "Honor".
Now for "Slack Key" it is truely a cultural art of the Hawaiian people. ( one of the many.) If we go back to when the vaqueros first came, i think is a good start. I believe the vaqueros had a strong influence on the hawaiian people in the music that they played. One of them was there yodeling, from the yodeling, i think that is where the hawaiians mastered the falsetto. Before the missionaries came there was no music, everything was put to chant's.
And when the vaqueros left the islands some of the guitars were left behind. I believe, that when they left, some of the hawaiians were not taught how to tune the guitar, and instead of asking those that were taught, some decided to try and tune them on there own. And those that ventured into tunning it on there own, came up with all these different tunnings, not knowning in the future it would bring half the world together, and is known to us today, as...Ki Ho'Alu.
Just like the "Steel Guitar" a comb fell out of the hands of joseph kekuku and hit the strings of his guitar that was laying there, and it gave a chiming effect, that made him explore a little more, and the steel guitar was born. This maybe one of the many stroies told, but which ever it is, We all start from the beginning, we experiment, we find new things and learn old things, we are thought the ways of the kupunas, malama what we have, share what we have, you don't have to be Hawaiian to do these things, We as individuals, within ourselves, need to malama what we have.( and i know we are.) Look at this site.
We need to share what we have.( and i know we are.) Look at this site.
The question again is? do you need hawaiian blood to play ki ho'alu? Not everyone has the koko,( blood ) But i know for sure, you all have the "Heart" to play and be "Hawaiian". Look at this Site!
Me Ke Aloha
Kevin
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Kevin K. Brown |
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Pops
Lokahi
USA
387 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 2:35:44 PM
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Kevin,
Well said and right on the money. |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 01/05/2005 : 3:42:37 PM
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Kevin,
As always your loving heart closes the loop and brings us all closer together.
Kawika |
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