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Antoine
Aloha
France
28 Posts |
 Posted - 01/25/2005 : 12:24:18 PM
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Aloha !
I've tried the drop C taro patch tuning, it's a really beautiful and inspiring tuning. Although I installed a biggest low string, 058 in place of the original 054, it still too light to get a clear sound ! For those who use C tunings, what string sets do you install on your guitars ?
( I've put my recording on my page : http://antoine.payen.free.fr/slackkey/ )
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Antoine 'Ilio Wela |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 12:51:31 PM
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Antione,
An .058 probably is a little muddy sounding and judging by the fact that you had an .054 on originally it sounds like your play light-mediums (.011 or .012 to .054). Try a set of mediums, .013 to .056 and see if you don't get a better balance. I happen to like Elixir Nanoweb Mediums, but there's lots of others.
That's an important tuning to know. With that and Taro you'll be able to play with almost anyone.
Dave |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 01/25/2005 12:52:17 PM |
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Antoine
Aloha
France
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 1:01:56 PM
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Hi Jwn,
I found that tuning when reading about Slack Key on the net, I don't remember the exact site, but it was reffered to as "drop C Taro Patch" ... I agree with you, it's a confusing denomination ! I'll try to find the right name.
I didn't write yet this tune, I just found it yesterday night, but I will do and send the tab to you and all those who should be interested, of course.
Aloha ! |
Antoine 'Ilio Wela |
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Fran Guidry
Ha`aha`a
USA
1579 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 2:27:17 PM
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I've heard the tuning called "Drop C" because of the relation to taropatch, "C Wahine" because of the B, and "Leonard's C" because Leonard Kwan used it often and so very well. Names of tunings are poetic rather than exact.
Fran
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E ho`okani pila kakou ma Kaleponi
Slack Key Guitar in California - www.kaleponi.com
Slack Key on YouTube
Homebrewed Music Blog |
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Reid
Ha`aha`a
Andorra
1526 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 2:55:12 PM
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Aloha e 'Ilio Wela e,
`Ilio Nui, (one 'nother dawg) and Fran, are almost certainly right. You are, again, almost certainly, trying out Leonard's C and you are muddying up your sound with heavier strings. Stay where you are. Hawaiians are, and were, very smart about lots of things, including their tunings. Retune,and keep other variables constant, or you are going to exponentially increase your decision making problems. Stay with the brand of strings you are familiar with, whatever they are, so that you reduce variability in your sensory apparatus (mine is my fingers and toes :-)
So, tell us, is your primary tuning (6-1) cgdgbd? If not, forget 33 1/3% of what I said. You can forget all of it, if you want.
...Reid
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Larry Miller
Akahai
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 01/25/2005 : 6:49:16 PM
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When I was a high school kid in Hilo back in the 50s, I no sooner figured out basic taro patch than I discovered Leonard's drop C. I can still do a fair rendition of his version of Silver Threads Among the Gold- try it- you'll like it!
I am also playing a Gibson 12-string with fairly heavy strings- I start a full tone below concert, then slack from there. It rumbles and roars..
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Whee ha!
Larry M |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 08:42:00 AM
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I tend to go by the numbers myself: taro patch is 5 7 5 4 3 to me whether it starts of the D (D G D G B D), C (C F C F A C) or any of the other alternatives. Now "Drop Taro Patch" I would interpret as 7 7 5 4 3 (C G D G B D) and if this starts on the B (B F# C# F# A# C#) it is still the same deal, esp. is a capo is applied at the 1st fret (or any other for that matter). That situation is a "clone" and is everywhere. I still remember a magazine article talking about the "alternate tuning" of a Nirvana song, and it was Drop D down a whole step (C G C F A D). Way more confusing to refer to it that way when 7 5 5 4 5 starting on C tells the tale. Of course I like the advantage of seeing that taro patch (5 7 5 4 3) and Open D (7 5 4 3 5) have 5 strings working just the same. Capo taro patch at fret 7 and you get A D A D F# A - Don't those top 5 strings look familiar? So much stress is laid on using different tunings, and a lot of the good ones are mostly the same as each other. Try going by the numbers and you will save a lot of confusion, and maybe discover you can play in a lot more tunings than you think. Try a common flavor or Open C (C G C G C E) which is 7 5 7 5 4 - Capo that one at fret 7 and you get G D G D G B, which has the same intervals as the bottom 5 strings of Taro Patch on the top 5 strings. Check it out...
Stringbreaker |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 09:28:18 AM
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Hey, Crazy,
Good explanation of the relationships of strings. I discovered the same relationship betw open D, G, and C a few years back. Allows you to play parts of the same chords in all three tunings, just on different strings.'
As for the open C you diagrammed, CGCGCE, that is a favorite of mine. Lots of Kottke, Fahey, Will Ackerman and David Lindley stuff in that tuning, as well as Joni Mitchell, Tom Rush and others. The capoed sound is nice, but i love the fullness of sound when played at the nut, tuned down a whole step to Bflat on my Taylor LKSM 12 string.
Never have broken a string on that guitar, guess because it is tuned so low?
And yes, taropatch is still taropatch, whether tuned down 4 steps or capoed up 7 frets.. It is the relationship of strings to eachother that defines the tuning. The pitch to which it is tuned only defines the key. If folks could get their minds around that concept, the confusion would disipate quickly. |
Karl
Frozen North |
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Larry Miller
Akahai
USA
65 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:01:51 AM
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I always assumed that the name "drop C" came from the idea that you "drop" the low D to a C.
Or am I oversimplifying?
;=)>
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Whee ha!
Larry M |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:08:19 AM
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Some more, perhaps unrelated, info:
At a recent workshop, Dennis Kamakahi told us that the term "wahine" in a tuning's name meant that it should be easy to play with just one or two fingers used for the I or the V chord. He said in the old slack key style the guitar is often played as a background drone to singing. In that style, typified by Auntie Alice Namakelua, the only obvious chords were the I and the V chord. With Auntie Alice, you usually hear the repetitive hammering on of the root note, typical of wahine tuning.
He went on to say that what Gabby, Sonny, Atta and others played is a kind of progressive and more ornamented slack key, not old style.
FWIW,
Jesse Tinsley |
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Antoine
Aloha
France
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:13:14 AM
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Aloha e you all,
I started playing in standard open G tuning when learning Lei 'Awapuhi, the 'true' Taro Patch, that is DGDGBD. From here I droped down the bass string to C, giving CGDGBD and that's all. Searching for information, I found it under the name of "C Wahine", like some of you mentionned. This song is in the key of C, and I wonder if I could find something in G naturally with that same tuning, cause the 7 steps range between 6th and 5th strings is not usual.
I will try open C also, CGCGCE, seems to be creative too. |
Antoine 'Ilio Wela |
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Antoine
Aloha
France
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:17:11 AM
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ps : and to have a comparison with well-knowned tunings, if you are in standard EADGBE and tune down your bass string to D, you are in .. Drop D !
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Antoine 'Ilio Wela |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 10:17:22 AM
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Hey Karl
Back in 1995 I put out the first version of my book, which is based on that relationship. In the current release there are 174 tunings, all with spellings and the "by the numbers" codes, and with all relationships of that nature spelled out in a chart of references for each tuning. For taro patch, there are 10 other tunings listed with 5 strings in common and 31 beyond that with 4 in common. Every tuning also has a freboard chart for ease in finding those common chords wherever you happen to wind up. Talks are underway with Mel Bay, so you may yet see it in stores instead of just on my 'site.
I love open C and a lot of its variants. C G D G A C and C F C G C E are both really easy to work with. Of course, this week it has all been weirdness: 5 7 4 3 2 at D# (D# G# D# G A# C) and 7 5 2 3 7 at D# (D# A# D# F G# D#) - the last spells nasty at pitch, but think D A D E G D and all will become clear. Take open D, drop strings 3 and 2 a whole step, then capo to taste. I bring the whole thing up a half step just to prevent string rattle on my second. These are both 12 string tunings for me, but mine is set up to play well in full pitch standard, so I don't take her too far down. I've tried a few Taylor 12's, mostly in stores that really have a cow if you try retuning them while they watch. So I haven't heard how well they do altered beyond dropping a D or bringing down the 5th to a G.
Stringbreaker |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 11:46:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jwn
S.B. you list FIVE numbers for each tuning. What am I missing? Was this explained somewhere else (if so, I apologize and please point me to that explanation)?
Like much magic and a lot of tuning issues, there is much less here than meets the eye. Standard tuning (ecch! but a good example) would be numbered 5 5 5 4 5 by this reasoning: Fret the 6th string at fret 5 (!) and you match the pitch of the open 5th string. Proceed upwards by the same logic. 5 numbers for 5 matches.
Taro patch is 5 7 5 4 3 - For D G D G B D you fret the 6th string D at fret 5 to get the G, fret the 5th string at fret 7 to get the D and so on.
If you transpose taro patch down a whole step to C F C F A C, it still has the same numbers. Fret the C (6th) string at fret 5 to match the F on the 5th string and so proceed. Simple, no? |
Crazy Man Tuning |
Edited by - Stringbreaker on 01/28/2005 07:28:04 AM |
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Antoine
Aloha
France
28 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 12:03:48 PM
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| Yes Crazy, it's really a good method to describe and compare tunings. Also it helps remember the fingerings if one keeps in mind the steps between the strings. |
Antoine 'Ilio Wela |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 01/26/2005 : 12:54:25 PM
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I'm sorry, Auntie
Thanks for catching that. I had mentioned taro patch as 57543 in an earlier post, but I forgot to check this one before sending. I've made the fix.
Stringbreaker |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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