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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
 Posted - 02/07/2005 : 2:28:24 PM
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I thought I'd take a few minutes (I type slow) and share some stuff I'm starting to work on. -- First couple of years it was mostly figuring out songs, learning to play the correct notes at the correct time. Now, while still a lot to go on those issues, I'm turning my attention to focusing on tone quality, coloration, timbre. When I listen to classical guitarists I admire, what impresses me is how expressive or poetic the guitar can be. It amazes me how players make repeated passages sound so different, and how the color of the tone adds so much to the music. ("Spanish Legends" by David Russell, a Telarc disk - just blows me away in this regard.) So I set out to play the same note over and over - and make it sound different. It was a revelation to me -- some factors that make a difference -- the angle of attack of the fingers, the type of stroke, the amount of tension in fingers of both hands, the ratio of nail to flesh on the stroke, how far towards the bridge or nut, the amount, and depth of vibrato, whether the vibrato was played from callus or from side of finger, amount of finger ension on string, where it was plucked to begin the vibrato. Then I played a simple G chord (1st string - 5, 2nd - 3, 3rd - 4, bass on open 5. All the above factors made a different in how it sounded, as did if I pinched, arpeggiated, or rolled -- how fast/slow the roll, plus all the above factors. when I strummed, I got slightly differnt effects with different speeds of strum/tension of the finger, number of fingers used. Now I need to start trying to apply some of these different techniques while I'm actually playing a song, manipulating the tone color and quality to enhace the mood and feel.
Don't know where this is going to lead me, but I'm going to try to consciously work on tone color for a couple of hours a week and see where it leads. I'm not sure of how much of this applies to steel string guitars, but since I play a classical style guitar, it makes sense for me to learn as much as I can about using its capacities for enhancing the music.
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 4:56:28 PM
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Raymond,
I think this is the most important question you have raised. The whole process of nahenahe playing is about tone and color. After I've learned the basics of any song, most of the time I spend practicing is coaxing the right tone and expression out of the guitar (not that I can do it). I can get real anal about it at times. So much so that I wait 'til my wife is out of the house to practice some passages. I'll play the same thing over and over and over again. To her it's the same thing over and over again, but I hear it differently each time I play it. As you know, sometimes it's the little emphasis on the third note (or whatever note it happens to be) that makes the difference. I could hear it in your playing the other night. What used to be a stiff, metronomic passage, now had the dynamics necessary to make it complete, beautiful and flowing. That's the difference between really good players and really great players.
There's really no big secrets to listening to a song in Taro and figuring it out. Once you've done it for a while you know that that's a G played at the 7-8-9 positiion that slides to a D at 10-12, then a C at 8-10, back to a G at 4-5. The real difference is the syncopation and emphasis of notes during the vamp. The hard part is how to color it.
Django Reinhardt once said that a persons "technique" was just one persons way around playing it correctly. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I understand what he's saying.
This music may be simple, but at isn't easy. But its fun as heck to play.
"Jus' Press" isn't enough, but keep pressin' 'til it's part of who you are.
Me Hawai`i Mai Loco Mai (which happens to be the title of my CD)
Dave
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Lawrence
Ha`aha`a
USA
1597 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 5:08:05 PM
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Hmmm... "Tone quality, color"
I always thought it was "Carat, Clarity, Cut and Color"
(Just a little Valentine's Day humor  )
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Mahope Kākou...
...El Lorenzo de Ondas Sonoras |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 8:18:42 PM
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I think good tone and coloration is like the 12th degree black belt of slack key and I'm a white belt.
But learning to change voices during an instrumental is important, especially in solo slack key, because each repeat of the theme can sound repetitive without without something to grab the listeners ear each time. I've been trying to learn Keola's "Shaka Slack Key", which he plays with George Winston. It starts out with one guitar playing quite deliberately, then Winston joins in unison, then they cut loose together. The changes are mostly dynamic, but the attack on the string gets crisper and harder edged as the song progresses. Unfortunately, my solo version sounds like me playing the same thing, not as well, over and over. But the point is taken, RJS, and I'll keep working on it.
Winston plays a 7-string on that song. It's tuned to taropatch with a low C on top. Anyone here play a 7-string?
Jesse Tinsley
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Karl Monetti
`Olu`olu
USA
756 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2005 : 9:20:05 PM
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7 string, that's NOTHIN"!
I play a TWELVE string!!!!
(I once tried tuning it so each set of strings was a third apart...man, what a mess)
Actually, tone is what i have the hardest time with. I often wonder if i have some physical deficiency. First, my nails are always breaking off, so the "flesh/nail" ratio is always changing. I should probably have then acrylicized (new word). But, i have just noticed recently, after playing for over forty years, that the tips of my fretting fingers really are not very solid. I mean, there are calluses there, alright, but there is also a line down the middle of each finger tip where the strings have worn a groove. I wonder if that softness of the tips is what has an adverse effect on my tone. It seems that no matter how hard or precisely i press, i do not get a really clean tone very often.
So, my question would be, what do the ends of your fingers look like? I envision the ideal would be a leathery thick callus that did not indent at all, would act as stiffly as a good capo in applying even pressure to the strings. MAybe i am just looking for an excuse for sloppy playing, but if what i feel is correct, and there were a way to strengthen or thicken my finger tips, I would be glad to try anything.
Any ideas?
On a slightly different tack relating to the same subject, my son gave me a copy of Zen Guitar for Christmas. Good little book. Sort of a self-help for life in general, guitar in particular. I am reading it slowly, trying to implement some of the teachings, and have found that it is very helpful. Actually, last night, concentrating on basics, getting the little things right, i sounded pretty good to myself. My fingering was more precise, the tone better, and i felt a whole lot better having played through my little repertwar (dang those french)
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Karl
Frozen North |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 06:01:12 AM
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aloha e Karl,
Be careful about achrylisyzing your nails!! There are ladies who have some really awful things happening - like infections, fungus, and when you quit doing it the nails look bizzare.
the book sounds like a good one - will have to look for it - thanks for the tip!
Sorry to miss you in San Diego on Sunday!
auntie - |
nancy cook |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 06:29:42 AM
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Zen Guitar is a great little book. I read that about two years ago, then gave it to a friend. I still use some of it's philosophy every time I play. The primary one I use is "don't play until your guitar is in tune". It seems rudimentary, but how many of us start playing, then adjust the tuning because its off a little? The idea is to set yourself up to be successful right from the get-go. There is no tone or color if you're out of tune. The second idea is to practice playing as sweetly as you can, given the dynamics of the moment. Yeah, the middle finger nail is broken off and there's a notch in the index finger nail, but if you've practiced for color and tone in the past and acheived success, finding the workaround in the moment should be easier or a least a good comprimise.
In my own playing there are a couple things I have to constantly work on. For some reason I have a bear of a time playing a C chord cleanly in the first position, in Taro, without twinging a string. How many years have I played an Am7 in standard tuning? But as soon as I add the pinky (or ring) to the second fret, first string-TWING. And you're right Karl, the finger grooves do have something to do with it. The tips of my fingers are four distinct railroad tracks and if I've been playing phosphor-bronze strings, they're embedded with black. And that's the nature of the callus; the better the callus, the more defined the groove. Then as you play more and more, the callus peels away and the finger tips get raw. I've tried sandpaper, "ToughSkin", etc and nothing seems to make it hard enought to not groove. What's really annoying is when you're attempting a clean pull-off and the groove hangs up on the string- TWING.
Jesse, I agree with you on playing solo. Most of the songs we learn are repetitive, with variations on a theme here and there. But it is very difficult to make them sound differently each time through. That's why I think this is such an important topic. Maybe we can help each other find better ways to play or at least better ways to commisurate on why we can't.
Dave |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 07:25:22 AM
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Karl--My own fingertips are quite leathery, with flat spots and grooves, but I've never had any problems with tone production from that side of things. I would look at either left-hand position (fingers arched enough?) or something in right-hand technique. Of course, a 12-string poses special problems of setup as well--do you have more problems with the wound-unwound pairs than the unwounds? What is the action like on the first 5 frets? Do you have the same problem with a 6-string?
I suppose it also might be an unhappy match between string spacing and size of fingers, which would mean it would go away if you went to a wider neck.
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 08:00:40 AM
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| As to the C chord problem - another thing to check is the playing position of the guitar. I noticed that some string-interference problems went away on that chord when I made sure the headstock was plenty high. For me, almost eye-level, and I play in classical position on a dreadnought shape steel-string. My theory is that each person's left-arm-hand-finger geometry requires a different headstock height to make the fingers fall correctly curved over the strings. for certain chord positions. Also sometimes moving the elbow forward or back, depending on the chord, will clear things up some. I'm looking to try the slightly wider neck that some steel string guitars have, but not as wide as my classical guitar. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 08:31:03 AM
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We're getting a little off topic, but...
I just started playing a 12-string and I love it. But I don't have fingernails so I just play with the pads of my fingers and I can't add much tone/coloration, but the 12-string offers another advantage. My fat fingers can't get stuck between the strings!
I'd like to learn to play with fingerpicks, but with picks I lose the feel of the strings. I love to listen to guys like Cyril and George K. who play 12-strings with picks. George often rapidly brushes the treble strings with the tips of his picks, which Rev. Dennis called "rubato". It sounds cool.
Jesse Tinsley |
Edited by - hapakid on 02/08/2005 08:56:59 AM |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 08:43:56 AM
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Hey Jess, I hear your coming out to D'n-land? is that true? If so, let us know your itinery so maybe we can all meet & jam.
-slkho |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 08:48:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jwn
I'm not sure if my nails became infected (with a fungus or bacteria or whatever) or if my body rejected the chemical components (due to an allergic reaction maybe?). The stuff used for acrylic nail application is quite potent... like here's their disclaimer: 'Sculptured nails are permanent and not intended to be removed.' I don't know 'bout you, but gluing on plastic, acrylic, whatever, with the intent of never, ever taking the gunk off, (now) kinda doesn't seem like the best thing to be doing. Hmmm... but back to the potency (more disclaimer): '...at the first sign of skin or nail redness or inflammation, discontinue use and contact a physician immediately.' (yikes!) It goes on: 'Failure to follow directions may cause permanent nail damage.' Which, I'd like to add, 'following' directions to the letter, will likely cause permanent nail damage.
If nothing else, your nails (underneath the acrylic) WILL weaken, and they'll get much, much thinner. Like paper-thin. Very thin paper, paper-thin.
Yikes, thanks for sharing your experience. Although, I admit that I'm not man enough to go acrylic, now I really won't do it. |
Andy |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 09:02:38 AM
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Rev. Dennis Kamakahi uses glue-on nails, but most of us can't go about our daily lives with glamour-length nails (painted black!) on three fingers. Dennis said the glue-on nails are the easiest for him to play with. Unlike finger picks, you can brush up and down without snagging.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 10:17:37 AM
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Glue-on nails are very different from acrylic nails - they don't stay on very long or very well. Uncle Dennis must use really good glue. This is all second hand - I have thick tough nails that can do real damage - but break sometimes, just like everyone else's. Gosh - this should probably be in the thread "care and feeding of the fingers".
another ordinary day in paradise - just swam several hundred yards out into the ocean - no wetsuit...
Camp in Feb just has to have warmer water than SoCal!!
auntie.. |
nancy cook |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 10:31:43 AM
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So much for this being a helpful thread. Thank you Russell and Leonard. Now it's off to D'n-land and maybe take a swim in the ocean to see if my black acrylic nails stay on. Oh, I'm sorry, we were talking about color.
Dave |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2005 : 1:55:52 PM
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As for the acrylic issue, John is quite correct. Having been (and still am) a dentist for 25 years the matter of acrylic sensitivity is quite serious. Besides the obvious skin lesions and allergic reactions that can occur, the vapors are very injurious to the respiratory mucosa. Also, if you happen to get a small piece embedded in the eye, from filing it, the material is very porous and can harbor enough bacteria that you can lose an eye very quickly. I speak from personal experience. Early in my career I got a piece stuck to my cornea. Had I not gotten to the ER quickly and not had an excellent doctor, I would be writing this with one eye. It took over two weeks for the infection to heal up and it was touch and go for a while.
Most joint replacements that fail are usually due to the body rejecting the acrylic that was used to cement the appliance in place.
My advice is if you are going to have acrylic nails, have the work done by a reputable manicurist and by all means, don't let them drill holes in your nailbed for anchorage.
Dave |
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