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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
 Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:05:04 AM
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Aloha e Raymond,
I think by the 3 pages of responses so far, you can see that you hit a nerve with many of us. thank you for your sharing your insights. Some folks have specific goals in learning and playing ki ho'alu, for others it's a way of life....
I have another question - for those of you using nylon (gut) strings, how often do you change the set, given that they haven't broken? I love the sound of new ones, but since they need repeat tuning all the time, it gets easy to leave them on too long. i guess part of the answer might be in string gauge and brand. and for that matter, what are the thoughts with the steel strings?
mahalo!!
auntie |
nancy cook |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 07:43:48 AM
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I know that slack key is an amalgamation of the availablity of the guitar combined with all the cultural influences of the islands, so we can argue all day about what is important in the world of Hawaiian music. The current business of slack key music--recordings, concerts, workshops, instructional material--is inevitably continuing to change it.
I injected this amorphous topic into this discussion, because when I hear a slack key master play in traditional style, the style centers is on ornamentation and repetition of Hawaiian idioms rather than subtlety of technique. In fact, sometimes subtlety is thrown out the window.
Again I reiterate, this topic is about black belt level techniques while I'm still at the white belt level.
Jesse Tinsley |
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Stringbreaker
Akahai
USA
62 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 08:02:49 AM
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Wow! What an intense thread this has turned into. I will review a few points on my own technique then share a thought.
The strap: a godsend for my own technique. The first real breakthrough in my own technique was when I went to a classical guitar teacher, sat down and showed him what I do. He suggested a strap for me, even though it is a non-classical solution. This brought about a very direct improvement in technique, as the guitar didn't change position on me while I was changing the position of my hands.
The nails and hand position: very short nails on both hands made a world of difference. I was being driven to distraction with odd accidental sounds I found out were the result of the nails on my fretting hand catching on the strings. I now cut short and file the nails of BOTH hands and it has cleaned up my slurs on both 6 and 12 string.
Playing standing up: helped me to be able to sing when I thought it was impossible for me to do. Turns out I was hunching over the guitar from the old reflex to look over at the fretboard and see what I was doing, and this compressed my chest and stopped me from breathing right. Practicing playing with my eyes closed standing up let me concentrate on breathing right and relaxing while I play. Much smoother and more controlled after just a little while of this, then the songs just started to flow.
Finally: too much of the refinement of technique seems to be a reflection of getting to know yourself as well as the guitar. It isn't one sided: ultimately, when you strip away all technical issues from playing you are trying to show yourself to the world, even if the world is only as big as your living room with a cat in attendance. The better you know and accept yourself, the better you will play, as there will be more of you in the music.
Stringbreaker |
Crazy Man Tuning |
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`Ilio Nui
`Olu`olu
USA
826 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 08:40:49 AM
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quote:
I injected this amorphous topic into this discussion, because when I hear a slack key master play in traditional style, the style centers is on ornamentation and repetition of Hawaiian idioms rather than subtlety of technique. In fact, sometimes subtlety is thrown out the window.
Again I reiterate, this topic is about black belt level techniques while I'm still at the white belt level.
Jesse, I don't think this is amorphous at all. This is the heart of the Slack Key technique(s). When I hear a slack key master, it's the idioms and ornamentations that each bring to the plate that grab my attention and some of them are extremely subtle, so much so that it seems like no technique at all. It takes massive amounts of technique to pull them off successfully (Led's Radio Hula comes to mind). I know I can spend hours trying to incorporate a certain trill into a song that I heard some great player do. Eventually it becomes second nature and I can use it elsewhere without thinking about it.
As for the white-belt/black-belt analogy. We all need to learn the proper forms (techniques) IF we want to advance. Thanks for you comments.
Patrick: Yes that's the point I was trying to make about using a strap. Thanks for saying it better. I play mostly sitting and using a strap greatly improves my ability to play and sing at the same time. No more hunch overs. Also, the nervous leg no longer bounces my guitar around. You also brought up a good point about fingernails. I keep mine groomed daily. The fret hand is always short. When it's not baseball season (baseballs do not like long nails) I keep my right hand nails at about 3/16, but even when they're cut back, with the correct hand position I can still get a nail on the string.
PS: I usually play for my dog and for some reason he doesn't seem to care.
Good stuff folks. Keep it coming. See Raymond, I told you this was an important topic.
Mahalo nui
Dave |
Edited by - `Ilio Nui on 02/10/2005 08:44:43 AM |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 09:23:40 AM
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Nancy -
About changing strings -- depends on how much you use them and how "aggressively" you play -- my guideline is that when I'm starting to work too hard, time for a change. I play at a restaurant every other week, give 1 - 2 lessons per week and practice an average of 1 - 2 hours per day, occasionally, if I discipline myself, a bit more. I typically change about once a month. In truth my strings are not "dead" when I change, and when I forgot to change in time, I've used the "old" strings on a gig -- sounded ok, just had to work harder. (I don't like to work more than I have to,) I've been using Hense, which took a huge dive in quality, so I switched to Hannaback, hard tension, carbon trebles. Not entirely satisfied. Just tried Augustine, hard tension. Perfect sound for the Latin repetoire, not quite bright enough for Hawaiian.
I minimize break in time by: making sure the strings are wound evenly without overlap on the tuners, giving a good couple of tugs around 12-14 fret when I install them, and fir the first two days, picking up the guitar every couple of hours and tugging/tuning, Usually they are pretty playable by second day. However, I anticipate a gig by about 5 days, or keep with the old strings. Also -- one of the best tools I have is a winder that fits into an electric screwdiriver -- makes the job MUCH easier. |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 09:34:48 AM
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I wanted to post this seperately, to keep the subject areas discreet.
You guys are definitely right on in terms of the ornamentation. A topic on improvisation within slack key might be interesting, and ornamentation would be a very important part of that.
Since you brought it up, I'll add my 2 cents. I have a problem with overuse of ornamentation, because it is so easy for it to become almost a stereotype. At its worst, one song starts to sound like every other song. In spite of the fact that it seems to be human nature that we repeat things that work, very accmplished players use ornaments in ways that enhance the specificness of each song. When you're accompanying singers, they carry the melody and words, and the uniquness of the song comes through. When you play solo, as I do, you have to emphasize the melody and keep songs sounding different. On top of that - I play entirely in taropatch. Which means a much more limited range of keys. (I don't like what capos do to the sound, either -- why use open strings if you're gonna pinch then up somewhere on the neck.) So, it is even more important to keep the sounds interesting and the songs sounding unique. For me, I use ornaments sparringly 'cause they start making songs sound too much alike. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to use more ornamentation and keep things unique. |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 09:35:59 AM
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Ahh, thanks Ray,
I've always done the pulling thing, it helps getting the tuning right too, but I had always overlapped the string on itself on the peg to keep it from slipping. Actually, I just found out about peg winders and that thingy that pulls out the little peg on the other end. My classical guitars are built differently and everything gets tied. I am still using LaBella strings, but plan to try some others. On the steel, I use the Pearse.
An off-hand note: Ilio Nui - another difference between cats and dogs: my cats take off when I start to play.
auntie |
nancy cook |
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slkho
`Olu`olu
740 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 10:19:58 AM
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Yikes!! from thread to ball of yarn.
-slkho |
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Russell Letson
`Olu`olu
USA
504 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 12:13:17 PM
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This thread deserves a longer and more nuanced response, but I'm in transit, so here's a quick take on managing variety: In mature players I hear a lot of attention to changes in phrasing (which I think amounts to emphasis/accent, subtle tempo shifts, playing ahead of or behind the beat, and so on); voicings/positions; and ornamentation (adding a slide, hammer-pulloff, harmonic, etc.). The melody is front and center (as it should be in a tradition rooted in song), and all the technique is in its service. In my own fumbling manner, I try to find how many ways I can play the melody with balance and a kind of simplicity or at least directness.
To come at the problem from a different angle: Traditional Hawaiian tunes, like a lot of "Celtic" dance tunes, tend to be short and relatively simple in structure (often just one strain, no B-section). The solution for instrumental presentation in both traditions is the medley, which much reduces the pressure to find yet another way to present an 8-bar melody. Just look at Gabby or Raymond's medleys.
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Edited by - Russell Letson on 02/10/2005 12:14:07 PM |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 2:26:55 PM
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I never take offense here, jwn! These topics just invite me to mouth off and see what happens.
I agree with jwn that Keola's music is filled with subtlety based on his virtuosity. He is a true master of the instrument. But I see his music as modern and an out-growth of his personal journey, which includes pop music and his quirky sense of humor. I understand the sonic purity of a single tasty note, played at the right moment. Ahhhhhh.
RJS and JWN have both mentioned that ornamentation can sound repetitive,especially if one tuning is played over and over. But that's traditional slack key. I understand what jwn called "too many twinkle notes", but that's traditional, if not exactly old style, in the art form. It was never meant to be a two-hour concert, it's just the way Hawaiians played. And each of us are carrying slack key to whereever we want to take it.
So while much of my mouthing off has to do with the search for Hawaiian roots in the music, I know sometimes we're just talking about the music.
Jesse Tinsley |
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RJS
Ha`aha`a
1635 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2005 : 3:23:12 PM
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jwn:
When I want different keys, I either find the right chords, or I'll find another tuning. To me one of the great payoffs of an open tuning is the resonance you get from open strings. Capo-ing at 5 (as an example) robs you of the resonance. Seems counterproductive to me. |
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Bing
Lokahi
USA
100 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 06:39:15 AM
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(Then I saw John Keawe and Ozzie Kotani with those nifty little straps that fit in between the lower bout.)
I've never used a strap. What are nifty little guitar straps anyway? |
Bing |
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Admin
Pupule
USA
4551 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 06:45:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Bing
What are nifty little guitar straps anyway?
Bing, check this post from the archives:
Oh m' achin' back! Guitar supports? |
Andy |
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wdf
Ha`aha`a
USA
1153 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 06:50:24 AM
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| Its called a NeckUp guitar support. http://www.neckup.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv Be aware that they don't work for everybody. I have one and it keeps slipping off my knee. Also, the suction cup tends to twist around on my guitar. |
Dusty |
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hapakid
Luna Ho`omalu
USA
1533 Posts |
Posted - 02/11/2005 : 07:56:45 AM
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jwn, I agree with you about excessive use of ornamentation cluttering the simplicity of melody, but what changes throughout the history of music is the sensibilities we bring to the music as listeners and players. So some might like Led's "Whee Ha Swing" and someone else might like Keola's "Morning Dew". Neither song dates back very far, but I would argue that "Whee Ha Swing" is closer to the roots of slack key--playing for fun, a rollicking party song, dazzling your audience with flying fingers. I would say that "Morning Dew" exemplifies modern sensibilities in slack key and is probably my favorite guitar instrumental of all time.
I think that Gabby, Ray Kane, Leonard Kwan and others brought slack key guitar to the front of the mix, but it was around long before mass produced recording. I can't point to a single recording or artist to exemplify it, but the musical culture behind everything I have heard from Hawaiian music points me toward a view of traditional music being a joyful diversion, played to escape the realities of daily life, played as a group to have fun. Modern life in Hawaii is hard for some Hawaiians, both as an ethnic group and a social underclass, and music tends to reflect that, which I think has led to the popularity of reggae and hiphop.
jwn, are you in Shoreline area of Seattle? I went to Shoreline Community College and visit occasionally. Maybe we can jam sometime.
Jesse Tinsley |
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