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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
 Posted - 02/13/2005 : 08:50:20 AM
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Aloha all you wonderful folks!!
Rik has fallen in love with this song form Gabby's Vol 1 CD and wondered if anyone has tabbed it out. If so, please post or send.
Mahalo nui loa!!!
auntie nancy
(Rik's on-line care-giver)
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nancy cook |
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chip
Aloha
Canada
38 Posts |
Posted - 02/15/2005 : 7:47:59 PM
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| Nancy I e-mailed you a couple of times to thank you for the slack track, info & couldn`t get through, soooo, thank you, all is well on that. Sorry can`t help on the song. Chip |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 05:01:58 AM
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I changed from PC to iMac and e-mail got stuck - all should be well now, thanks -
auntie |
nancy cook |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 02/16/2005 : 7:39:58 PM
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Dear Auntie Nancy -
I was just discussing with JWN the issue of sharing pieces we have tabbed out. I've thought one couldn't do it without the permission of the performer. As a result, I've put away a few things I've tabbed out (at great pain - especially since I didn't have "slow-downer" type software) as being work I couldn't share. Such as Doug Mc Masters' "Hawaii Aloha" and "Puff The Magic Dragon."
Not so? Or, were you looking for someone who had done it before seeking permission?
Mark (E) |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 12:52:43 AM
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aloha e Mark!
I was seeking to find if anyone has tab or a source for the one song. Rik (slkho) asked me to post the request. I read the 4 pages about sharing tabs and I think it's not OK to post them since we are a public site, but OK to share with a friend or two. It would be best to seek permission of the artist.
After my few law classes in school 40 yrs ago, I would always have said it's OK to share. The only time an artist would have cause for suit would be if there was money to be shared. I guess that's been extended and tightened up in the music industry, maybe because there is a lot of money. For teaching purposes in other fields, it is considered OK to copy parts of books for students ( and I'm talking about basic school/college). And I know for certain that most of us that read, share our books with everyone and feel that's a good thing. And when we're all finished, donate them to the library to sell. And I'm sure most of those are new and under copywrite protection. And we gardners certainly share bulbs, cuttings, etc even though many are patented like bulbs and roses.
So the answer is the same as everyone else's here. Share everything. But don't share anything if the artist objects, and ask to make sure he doesn't mind. At least here in ki ho'alu, the artists are very accesible. We want to do the honorable thing, give credit where credit is due, honor our teachers and our artists, and try to learn their songs.
I really wonder what objection there could be to sharing tab you've developed for songs that were never envisioned by their creators as slack key pieces. As several are quick to point out, I'm new here, but what harm can there be in sharing your arrangement/tab for Puff? (one of my favorites, by the way)... oh oh, this adds another dimension to that whole discussion, doesn't it? I respect your knowledge and opinions on this and the many other things you share. Over and out -
mahalo -
auntie |
nancy cook |
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Mark E
Lokahi
USA
186 Posts |
Posted - 02/17/2005 : 8:39:53 PM
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Dear Auntie Nancy -
Thank you for a most thoughtful reply. The problem with Puff is that it is not my arrangement. It is Doug McMasters' which, if you have not heard it yet, will make Puff even more of a favorite. I have simply tabbed out his arrangement from off one of his CDs. If you get his permission, I would love to send you a copy. I would have loved to have one to learn the song in the first place and was only driven to that effort because it was the only way to learn it. (I am very visual.)
I wonder if we could somehow start a list on Taropatch of who has tabbed out what so that people could get them from each other once they had gotten the appropriate permission. Or, maybe the tabs could be given to the copyright holders to send out for a fee like Keola's on-line lessons? I sent my tab of Puff to Doug but, as far as I know, he hasn't done anything with it. But maybe he could do that.
Anyhow, I imagine that there's a wealth of tabbed out music out there that it would be great if we found a way to share.
Kia Orana (May you live on),
Mark (E) |
Edited by - Mark E on 02/17/2005 8:48:05 PM |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 05:12:05 AM
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Mahalo e Mark,
I'm glad you understood my motivations - I had no idea that anyone had played Puff in slack key - what fun!! Since there is a fairly limited number of artists, perhaps one or a couple of us who are interested in being able to share tabs could contact the artists and get their position on a variety of issues - for instance, if there's no commercially produced tab, would you mind if we tabbed some of your work and shared with our on-line ohana... Then we may be able to do a C-Patch - style list that would list songs that are available here among us and who to contact for them.
What do you think, Andy?
Mahalo and Aloha!!
auntie |
nancy cook |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 07:18:04 AM
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I think you have the kernel of an idea - instead of contacting each artist as it comes up, see if some artists will give blanket permission under certain conditions, then make a cpatch-style list. As long as it's not competing with their income-producing tabs, they may be willing. Of course in some situations the artist may not be the copyright holder, especially if incorporated. The list could refer to a location, like someone's website, or to an email address where the person who has tabbed it out could be reached.
Or what if each person who receives a "free" informal tab supplied by a taropatcher pays the artist a dollar? Don't know how we'd manage it, other than honor and snail mail. Just throwing these ideas out without much forethought, you know. The artists may want it made clear that the content of the tab is not artist-approved - it's just the tab maker's version, and the quality and accuracy could vary, if that's of any concern to the artist. Anyone copying a published tab would not be covered of course - we each need to BUY the published tabs to keep the artists sheltered and fed. Sorry if I sound like an attorney - I'm an attorney.
Most of the pieces are recorded, of course - how about if the artist allows these informal tabs if the person receiving the tab has purchased the recording and there is no commercially available tab? And we send them a dollar. (I just like the idea of sending Ray, Cyril and Led a dollar each as a token of appreciation - I may do that anyway.) Let's keep thinking this through. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 07:37:29 AM
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Hi Leonard,
You hit on one thing that I wanted to do and that is obtain guidelines from an artist about what he wants. I think some may be offended about getting a dollar in the mail for all 9 of us that want a particular tab..... who knows? But I always take the direct approach. If anyone even has reservations about what they want us to share, we won't. And I am very respectful of the way they make their living. My dad has had his own business (as you probably do) and it brings a whole set of challenges. He shares a tremendous amount of knowledge with the folks for free, but he doesn't help with the actual work.
By the way, one area that is a mystery to me is tabbing out old time songs that are recently recorded. I would not be able to tab it out exactly - who does? or who cares? We had that discussion awhile ago...
If you have any opinions - Mark Nelson, Kevin Brown, Herb Ohta, Daniel Ho, Uncle Dennis, David, Keoki, Chris, John Keawe, and anyone who's lurking out there who has an interest in this ..... please share - e-mail me if you'd prefer. Each of your wishes will be honored by our Taropatch Ohana.
As I get going on this with Andy's blessing, I'll check in with you and will probably go at it a bit slowly since I should practice instead of getting side-tracked.
Mahalo nui loa!!!
auntie |
nancy cook |
Edited by - Auntie Nancy on 02/18/2005 07:54:18 AM |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 09:45:40 AM
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I certainly meant no offense by my "one dollar" - their contributions are certainly worth more than that to me, and a tab of Po Mahina would be worth a lot of money to me - I just meant that some monetary compensation to the artist would be in order, even if the tab was done by someone else.
As to the old songs - if by tab you mean words and chords, then I don't think the artist would disagree that old songs may be in the public domain. I was assuming you meant a note for note tab of an instrumental solo, even if it's based on an old public domain song. For instance, Sanoe is almost certainly in the public domain, but Cyril's arrangement, which is tabbed out note for note in Mark Hanson's book, is Cyril's property (or perhaps the publisher's). If you got the melody and some chords from an old book, no one needs to consult Cyril. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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Auntie Nancy
`Olu`olu
USA
593 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 2:28:19 PM
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aloha -
I didn't envision this as a give-away, a freebie more of let's share. Nor did I envision it as something that was limited to just you and me, and 40 others, but no more. I think there's a lot of "second guessing" and my style is to just ask nicely. If you try to figure out what someone else is thinking, you're usually wrong.
If Mark and I don't get anywhere with this, that's OK. If there is a benefit to anyone, or to the group of ki ho'alu perpetuators, then it is worth pursuing. Those who plan to then make money by performing or recording have their own issues, not mine. If the answer is a contract, then the answer is no to this particular endeavor.
There are a lot of things in life that are shared and others that are given freely. And many of these may have a significant monetary value in which the giver is simply not interested. My personal philosophy is that many people have been very good to me. It's not necessary to repay them directly, but to help as many folks along the way as I am able. It's a pretty simple philosophy.
And again, in second-guessing, my guess is that the artists are not of one mind. And another guess is that not a one needs tab from us to continue their careers as artists and performers. The teachers have provided us with good value for the material and training they've given us including the tabs. And I'd hazzard another guess that several believe that the tabs are only a crutch.
I don't know any of this for sure until I ask the right questions. Since I'd like to do it in the name of the Taropatch Ohana, I need Andy's blessing to proceed. I don't think it is necessary to put it to a vote, nor for everyone to think it's a good idea.
mahalo for your input -
auntie nancy |
nancy cook |
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marzullo
`Olu`olu
USA
923 Posts |
Posted - 02/18/2005 : 5:38:45 PM
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aloha e kaua,
just to change the topic a biy, both "lei mokihana" and "po mahina" are, chordally, pretty simple - they alternate between the tonic and the V7 (eg, G and D7; maybe there is a C in "lei mokihana", i just tried it out on a uke). of course, the beauty is in how you play those chords. kevin brown showed me how he played his version of "po mahina" (it's on the great "three generations" album). it's beautiful - he uses mainly parallel sixths with some careful choice of when to pluck and when to let ring. his rhythym is a bit tricky too - not as syncopated as cyril pahinui's but more so than keoki kahumoku's.
keith |
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Leonard
Lokahi
USA
124 Posts |
Posted - 02/19/2005 : 11:37:42 AM
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| I was talking about Cyril Pahinui's instrumental version on the album of the same name, although I like his vocal one on that same album, too. To me Cyril's instrumental Po Mahina (which is in D tuning) doesn't sound like any other slack key piece. I love the offbeat thumb work, the empty spaces, and the variety of the variations, the subtle changes in dynamics. But the fact that it's on a 12-string does confuse me when I'm trying to transcribe it (by the old-fashioned ear method), because there's so much sound. Anyway, there are many pieces I like, by many artists, but Cyril's Po Mahina is my Mount Everest. Someday, someway, I have to play it. LRR |
Be the change that you wish to see in the world. M. Gandhi |
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